Author Topic: Whats the latest on the 600EFI transplant  (Read 11521 times)

Odyknuck

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Whats the latest on the 600EFI transplant
« on: January 09, 2007, 09:06:55 AM »
Brian, Whats happening with the project? Was wondering what you finally did with the clutchs. Have you tried to use the Pilot driven etc. Is the AC driven worth the effort.

Odyknuck

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Clutchs
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2007, 10:25:13 AM »
Brian, I am not granted access to reply to your response to my question. So I will do it here. Dave S. and I are doing Rotax 700 twin transplants and are in the R&D stage. We are contemplating what clutch system to use. I hear pros and cons about using the stock driven versus the AC or Ski-doo etc. My concern with your setup is it breaking (how much ride time on your setup). and the clearances required. We are considering just making new shafts to replace the stock one if we go that route.  We are also considering using VW 930 CVs to handle the additional HP and to have easy access to rebuild parts for them. This also has bearing on the clearance issues with a sled clutch. You had mentioned  That Neil from ATVR used the stock Pilot driven. What was his take on that. Another clutch I'm considering is the Team unit. It appears to be a much better setup than the AC. and its a smaller diameter.

ludedude

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Whats the latest on the 600EFI transplant
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2007, 11:39:28 AM »
I've got aboout 30 hrs on my setup without a clutch support,which I have figured out, just not gotten around to making. With that I can't see it breaking at all, especially how it's run so far.

I think I'm near ideal for the EFI engine I picked....I can keep the pull start as is, and JUST get it off without removing the engine...and the drive clutch has enough room for belt changes between it and the frame. My clutch support will incorporate a torque rod setup which I believe is a needed addition (the sleds use them too). My belt JUST slips on the driven between it and the CV. I made up an allen bolt slider pin for the upper caliper bolt as the driven would hit it when fully opened and clearanced the rear of the driven a bit as well. With where my engine sits,I needed the driven spaced out where it is, as such, my engine is centered for balance side to side and I can clear the CV and caliper. I forget for sure Neils thinking on the stock driven, I belive they went that route to ease the install. My rebuilt I am assured will handle well above 100hp...the slipper clutch is my weak link..and I'll leave it as is ;)

The clutching is way off....that is toomake use of the full rpm/throttle range. In the sled I could keep it pinned and it wouldn't reach max rpm/cutoff....in the pilot I have to back out of the throttle to about 2/3 of WOT once I hit ~8200 rpm. If I can reach peak without it going over (then it drops to about 7500rpm, before coming back into power) my max speed is about the same as it was with the CR500 top end...and that's fine with me too.

Pesonally I would stray from the pilot driven, go to something else. For parts and for the adjustability, same reasons I was given when I was contemplating too ;)

With my install the only frame mods I did were remove the battery tray and mounts (relocated it) added rad brackets and an exhaust mount, everything else is bolt in ;)  8)

Odyknuck

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Transplant
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2007, 01:04:04 PM »
I've got aboout 30 hrs on my setup without a clutch support,which I have figured out, just not gotten around to making. With that I can't see it breaking at all, especially how it's run so far.
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With the shaft being extended like you have it I would think putting a bearing on the trans side of the clutch (close to the clutch) would work just as well as on the outside. That way you could attach it direct to the trans with out to much effort. Then you would not have to be concerned about changing the belt and having clearence on the frame side.
Do you have any extra bad Pilot clutchs? If I deside to go the adapter route I really dont want to destry a good Pilot clutch.
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My support is going on the tranny side ;) I don't have any extra pilot drivens right now...I want to hold onto what I have.

I think I'm near ideal for the EFI engine I picked....I can keep the pull start as is, and JUST get it off without removing the engine...and the drive clutch has enough room for belt changes between it and the frame. My clutch support will incorporate a torque rod setup which I believe is a needed addition (the sleds use them too).
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Is you end up solid mounting the trans to the frame and rubber mout the engine. I would think that making both work as a unit would be a better approch. Either solid mount both or rubber mount both. I like the way the stock pilot is set up. It inheritly has the torque plate build in.
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Yeah I guess I could easily replace my rear mount with a solid one and eliminate the torque rod...but it's going to be right there anyhow when I add in the clutch support.


My belt JUST slips on the driven between it and the CV. I made up an allen bolt slider pin for the upper caliper bolt as the driven would hit it when fully opened and clearanced the rear of the driven a bit as well. With where my engine sits,I needed the driven spaced out where it is, as such, my engine is centered for balance side to side and I can clear the
CV and caliper.
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Have you looked at using a Team clutch. I believe they are of a smaller diameter (10 1/2") than the AC.

I haven't..I may in the future,,but what I have works fine now

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I forget for sure Neils thinking on the stock driven, I belive they went that route to ease the install. My rebuilt I am assured will handle well above 100hp...the slipper clutch is my weak link..and I'll leave it as is  
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I talked with Neil today and that was his take on it. He did mention that he was using less horse power motors than I am. He also mentioned about beefing up the slippers to handle the additional HP. A thin washer under each bolt would do the trick.
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The clutching is way off....that is too make use of the full rpm/throttle range. In the sled I could keep it pinned and it wouldn't reach max rpm/cutoff....in the pilot I have to back out of the throttle to about 2/3 of WOT once I hit ~8200 rpm. If I can reach peak without it going over (then it drops to about 7500rpm, before coming back into power) my max speed is about the same as it was with the CR500 top end...and that's fine with me too.
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Im assumming your talking about the EFI Rev limiter? Where you running a Rev limiter with the CR500? What RPM did the CR500 max out at.

I forget :oops:! ~8000rpm?  Just was informed the AC ECU has no rev limiter...hmmmmmm
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Pesonally I would stray from the pilot driven, go to something else. For parts and for the adjustability, same reasons I was given when I was contemplating too  
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I tend to agree, however better to explore all the options considering the  additional work required to make a non stock one work. I do want to be able to make adjustments to both clutchs. It was the same limitation with the Power block and 102C clutchs using the stock driven. You really never knew the potensial of the setup with out being able to adjust the driven.
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With my install the only frame mods I did were remove the battery tray and mounts (relocated it) added rad brackets and an exhaust mount, everything else is bolt in  
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Bolt in is Good lol.

Yup..tank, engine and exhaust can be out in under an hour ;)

ludedude

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Whats the latest on the 600EFI transplant
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2007, 02:32:30 PM »
my replies in red ;)

ludedude

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Whats the latest on the 600EFI transplant
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2007, 09:26:15 AM »
got it together yesterday and went for a drive last night!!  :shock:  :!:  :shock:  :shock:  WoooHOO! What a blast!, even have the electric start working.....well....had...lost the gear of the starter  :twisted:  I had made a snap ring up as the kit didn't have one in it....guess it wasn't good enough  :P  Ah well...found another one locally so I should have it tonight or tomrrow...Ted's coming in tomorrow ;) Now to find some springs and weights to play with :)

Gary...look at the electric start from a '96 Jag....I used one from a '99 ZRT600 (triple - got a good deal). I had to shorten the aluminum cross rod...but the jag has a one piece starter.....oh forgot.....yours has the starter with it...duh-oh!  :lol:

Odyknuck

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Whats the latest on the 600EFI transplant
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2007, 09:38:43 AM »
Glad to here you got it running. Im looking for a starter setup for a Rotax 700 if you run into one.

nuke em

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Whats the latest on the 600EFI transplant
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2007, 09:50:40 AM »
I have the starter, but its always good to have a backup plan ready. I am rereading your entire buildup(its alot too) so i will be ready. I was going to start the install this weekend but its in the negative degrees here all weekend so it may be a little longer. With the EFI engine, I should be able to have more tilt angle on the engine to leave more room for the tranny crossmounts and exhaust turn out with getting too close to the seat. I still can not deside what engine cradle design to go with. I have several rolling around in my little brain. LOL

I got a few go fast goodies for the 86 250R trike too. CT Racing rev ported jug, milled head, Paul turner rev pipe, ect. Probably going to be in a cast soon too!

ludedude

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Whats the latest on the 600EFI transplant
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2007, 10:28:12 AM »
Looks like you can use duals on the EFI ;) Blackmagic makes a set and a ECU chip to match  :P  That'll allow more options for the pipe routing. I think I'll go that route...mine work's I just don't like the looks and its too close to the seat  :roll:

nuke em

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Whats the latest on the 600EFI transplant
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2007, 11:06:55 AM »
Thanks for the tip Brian. I found thier website and I am doing the homework now.

ludedude

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Whats the latest on the 600EFI transplant
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2007, 02:26:43 PM »
I'm trying to pick up a set of duals now via Ebay and/or arcticchat.com I'll let you know the dimensions if/when I get a set. I may just measure and relist them....depends on how many changes they'd need to fit nicely. What do you have planned for the exhaust? Make your own or modify the stock one?

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Whats the latest on the 600EFI transplant
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2007, 04:09:50 PM »
I seen a set on Ebay today for around $350. The distance from the jug to where they first turn looks like near 12 inches(sorry don't know metric). They would have to be modified before I could use them. I plan on running the stock exhaust system with minimal modifications for now then add twins later if it doesn't go fast enough for me.  I have a twin nitrous setup for it, if i need a little more ummph at the end of a drag race. LOL

Do you sell shock covers in your store?

ludedude

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Whats the latest on the 600EFI transplant
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2007, 09:50:48 AM »
I got the Black Magic pipes and a chip for them on the way ;) Once I get them and look at them I will decide wether to cut and fit them or measure them to copy the dimensions to create a set of duals that will fit and relist them.

FL670R

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Whats the latest on the 600EFI transplant
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2007, 11:03:30 AM »
So Brian what did you end up doing with the electrical...

I read thru the ebay listing and see that you have it hooked up with electric start.
(Did you end up mounting the starter under the engine ?)

What exactually are you calling the "charging diode" ?
Are you referring to the Regulator/Rectifier thats included with the electric start kit ?

Do you have or can you make a wiring diagram of your electrical setup ?

I was planning the same route AC for lights and EGT guages and DC to charge battery witch really only powers electric start and in my case a Drak radiator Fan.

Did you use the FL400 regulator at all ?
Did you ever find out if the yellow from the Cat Stator works to power the FL400 lights via the stock regulator ?
Did it work with just two yellows or did you add the third ?

Sorry for all the questions I'm about to rewire the FL670 again and thought your insight may help speed me along...

Later
Dennis

Odyknuck

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Whats the latest on the 600EFI transplant
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2007, 11:11:17 AM »
The best thing to do is to buy the Ski-doo Starter style regulator that gives you the 12 VDC for the battery charging. I picked one up for my 700 Retrofit for about $30.00.  You could then eliminate the Pilot Regulator and just tie the Ski-doo to the wire that normally is used by the Pilot Reg and have charging and system DC with out having to rewire much at all.