Author Topic: 400 R Lower End rebuild  (Read 11952 times)

Hailwood

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400 R Lower End rebuild
« on: March 09, 2012, 04:46:34 PM »
New to the forum and did check the search function.  Looking for some info on rebuilding the lowerend.  List of parts-seals, gaskets, bearings ect.  I know some of the parts are not available anymore and can cross bearings ect.  Are the Athena gasket sets good or does Cometic offer a full lower and top end set.  any tricks or tips would be appreciated.  I have the paper manual being shipped as I type.  Any help would be greatly appreciated in the form of an email or posted here.  Sorry if it has been covered but if it has in one thread please send me in that direction.  Anyone in the NJ/PA Stockton New Hope area on here?

I also forgot, any special tools that are needed.  I am a motorcycle mechanic so I have a lot of tools but nothing Pilot specific, I also have access to a car shop and all their tools but will order any thing that is needed to do the job right. 
 
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 04:54:00 PM by Hailwood »

LiveWire

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Re: 400 R Lower End rebuild
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2012, 05:05:26 PM »
You can also download a PDF version of the manual off this page: http://aftershockmotorsports.com/Honda-FL400R-Pilot

I personally prefer Athena gaskets over Cometic. My dislike for Cometic primarily comes from their head gasket for the FL350 Odyssey and have never seen their Pilot gaskets. You need a flywheel puller, a clutch puller and a very deep 41mm socket. I see Adnoh uses a tool sort of like a crows foot for the 41mm nut. You also need a case splitter tool which I would think you would have.

Hailwood

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Re: 400 R Lower End rebuild
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2012, 05:42:53 PM »
what is the 41 used for and thanks for the response.

hoodlum

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Re: 400 R Lower End rebuild
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2012, 06:41:59 PM »
what is the 41 used for and thanks for the response.
It is used for the left hand thread lock nut on the left side of the crank....IYou will also need a means of pulling the crank through the bearings during re-assembly that will not put any stress on the bearings....I guess you probably know about heating the cases when installing the new bearings?

Hailwood

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Re: 400 R Lower End rebuild
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2012, 07:01:02 PM »
yeah, cases in the oven and bearings in the freezer!!!  Ill look at the manual and make a tool list.  is the clutch tool basically the threaded rod like for a go kart?

Factory 45

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Re: 400 R Lower End rebuild
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2012, 09:44:28 PM »
You can use a Ski Doo clutch puller for TRA and a small solid rod of sorts...for the stocker. I also would reccomend Athena over Cometic all day long...Cometic base gasket is VERY thin and head gasket is Very thick...nowhere near the correct thicknesses for correct stock rebuild. Athena and Vesrah seem to have the best replacement AM gasket set for Pilot. Buy a NEW Reverse Thread lock-nut for the crank...just ordered a bunch of bearings and seals and they are not as unavailable as some places may make you think. If you are in powersports the rest of the stuff you will need are basics like a gear jammer...if you cant come up with a flywheel puller I could send mine on lend for you.

The connecting rod on this build will be difficult to come up with if you look for a FL Rod...not sure at this point if they exist. The choice rod to put in its place is a CR 500 Rod...which has to be modded. Top width is too wide for the pilot piston. Crossroads...some guys narrow the rod...I kept the top FAT and customized my piston.

The only other do dad you may need other than the pilot specific stuff is a simple two or three jaw gear puller...my primary drive gear was stubborn releasing from the crank spline.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 10:03:03 PM by Factory 45 »

LiveWire

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Re: 400 R Lower End rebuild
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2012, 06:02:51 AM »
I have pullers for the clutch and flywheel. They are not listed on the site yet. I am in the middle of a software upgrade on a backup copy and if I added items to the site, it would all have to be redone after flipping the site over to the new version.

My own personal set of Pilot tools were stolen when my shop was broke into. All the specialty tools were in a small portable tools box. On the last Pilot bottom end I did, I had to get new ones of everything. I had made these up previously:
http://aftershockmotorsports.com/Honda-FL350R-Odyssey/Tools/Crank-Nut-Socket

I cut one and added about an inch into it to use on the Pilot. I will just make the next batch 1" longer to begin with.

hoodlum

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Re: 400 R Lower End rebuild
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2012, 12:11:16 PM »
Here is mine...It is a 1 5/8" socket and fits the nut perfectly.....It is 1" drive.....I took an 11/16" deep well impact socket,which measured 1" od,stuck it in the drive hole of the big socket,and welded it up....Cost was around $20....

Adnoh

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Re: 400 R Lower End rebuild
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2012, 10:16:38 AM »
Nice tool Hoodlum.

LiveWire

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Re: 400 R Lower End rebuild
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2012, 03:13:02 PM »
Flywheel puller


Clutch puller

Adnoh

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Re: 400 R Lower End rebuild
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2012, 04:46:51 PM »
More cool tools.

Factory 45

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Re: 400 R Lower End rebuild
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2012, 05:38:04 AM »
Was trying to remember this...there was one more notable mention about the CR500 Rod. The parts that came with the Pro-X rod kit I used...I think were slightly different than the FL pin and parts. Which made a few rebuild measurements very important. The width of the crank must be spec. to what it came out at. (provided it was not badly twisted or damaged upon engine dissasemble) The width of the old mains AND new mains installed from side to side must be measured. Especially important if you decide to lap your center cases...sounds silly but the width of the center case gasket will even effect this measurement. You must take into consideration the differences in the rod side clearance specs between th FL manual and the CR manual...because they are different by a few thousands.

At the time I was able to get a FL pin,washers,and bearing and I am pretty sure I used them and was able to get the rod side clearance, and crank width right on the money. Also pay particular attention to RUNOUT as this engine drives a CVT system and could be 100% RUINED if you run it with a twisted crank.

Adnoh

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Re: 400 R Lower End rebuild
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2012, 05:43:00 PM »
Good and important info Factory 45.

hoodlum

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Re: 400 R Lower End rebuild
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2012, 05:19:40 AM »
Yes sir!!!! I got a crank (paper weight) on my bench right now that was put together .007 wider than stock....Didn't notice it till 2 bearings and 2 rebuilds later....That freakn thing will fry a main in about 30min run time....Got to get that fixed real soon...I like to carry a spare lower end to St.Joes....

Hailwood

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Re: 400 R Lower End rebuild
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2012, 06:05:51 PM »
thanks everyone for your imput, it has been quite helpful.  im going to get my list together this weekend or early next week and get started.  whats your guess on time, what would a dealership charge in labor for the job?