Author Topic: New Pilot Ideas... (Read 11367 times)

Adnoh · « **Reply #15 on:** November 20, 2010, 09:47:36 AM »

Sounds like you have the bug. That's a good thing. Share some pics when you get a chance we all love pics. The trx set up is lighter than stock pilot and helps with the unsprung weight I'll get you some current d-1 d-2 numbers for you motion ratio and frq numbers.

Factory 45 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 20, 2010, 10:18:43 PM »

Thats great Adnoh...thank you so much for sharing this stuff. Oh yeah will def be putting up the pics. I am completely infected for sure...always thought the pilot was cool but never thought much about them. Had a guy bring me a few buggies to work on...first one was a china buggy (cn 250 four stroke scooter engine) I built a complete harness and drove it...slow ass and terribly designed. When he came to pick it up...I said if you really want a nicely made machine go get a pilot or ody. A month later he brought in the first pilot I have ever driven. He bought it and blew it up withtin days. (fuel tank sediment clogged the jets at almost full throttle...BOOM) That was one of the first engines I have ever built...81.5 wiseco, reeds, oem complete crank, WP rotating seal, belt...and a new fuel tank. http://www.facebook.com/v/154579187906815 This is footage from my phone after the engine was in and cycled...first ride. For me...that sealed my fate lol. I have heard stories about that buggy pulling wheelies with a new engine and belt. (not from a dead stop but after a 180 slide and punching it) AND MOST IMPORTANT Its a HONDA...love em, always loved em since my 86 250R. Not bad for one handed right?

hoodlum · « **Reply #17 on:** November 21, 2010, 08:38:19 AM »

What is the "WP rotating seal" you were referring too?

Adnoh · « **Reply #18 on:** November 21, 2010, 09:27:10 AM »

I bet he meant crank seal. Factory 45, air craft mechinc at some time by chance or work for a shock/strut company.

Factory 45 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 21, 2010, 05:49:00 PM »

Water Pump rotating seal...the funky spring loaded seal that rides the back side of the impeller. It has a tiny weep relief that will spittle coolant so as not to pressurize and compromise the oil seal. Sucked cuz the thing leaked after the engine was reinstalled. So had to get a gasket and remove the side case and do bench surgury. Oh it def got new main bearings and seals too. Check out this little short from today. Man I cant wait to make the screaming LT buggy. http://www.facebook.com/v/167456816619052

Adnoh · « **Reply #20 on:** November 21, 2010, 08:44:30 PM »

I see said the blind man. I was fixcated on the bottom end, my bad. That's one smack to the back of the head for me ( probie).

D-1: pivot center to lower shock center 7.5"
D-2: pivot center to ball joint center line 18"

D: shock extended lenght using stock pilot mount and stock trx on arm 15"
Shock angle 20% at free sag of 30%

LR average 2.526315

Adnoh · « **Reply #21 on:** November 21, 2010, 08:48:07 PM »

Nice little short course. Makes me want to go ride.

Factory 45 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 21, 2010, 11:01:43 PM »

Hell Yeah...no serious jumping yet tho. It will do it Im sure...has a different type of commitment during approach to take off. Ever sice I saw cowboy launching his I wanted to see how they do in the air. I think a long travel plush suspension would be just what the doctor ordered. Found myself trying to turn by leaning too hahahaha ya right. (not seriously leaning but found myself tilting my head a bit) There is a Youtube of Steves Pilot Wreck that I never want to duplicate...and she seemed just a touch on the nose heavy side when jumping. Knowing that the front is wayyyy light compared to the rear would I be correct in assuming that would be due to the rear shocks and suspension being too fast when rebounding or the fact there is no adjustments to control any dampening settings? Is there anyone out there that can valve them and put adjustable reservoir bottles on? Havent popped the spring off one yet to see what the shaft and seal head even look like. If they are rebuildable would a revalve/rebuild combined with the relocator kit you did make a good low budget long travel?

Factory 45 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 22, 2010, 10:41:16 AM »

Those numbers for D1, D2 are the plot dimensions for the lower arm and shock mounting point to achieve the Avg. motion/leverage ratio you noted? Just curious if that is a stock arm or the FB arm? And used a 15" shock eye to eye?

Adnoh · « **Reply #24 on:** November 22, 2010, 12:12:19 PM »

The d-1 and d-2 are measured using the FB lower arm ( +2+1)bolted to the stock pilot mounting points. The lower arm is a direct bolt up no adjustment needed. The Lr average is based off of the 15" and the FB arm. Fire BAll cann put the shock mount where ever you want it or they can leave it off and send the parts withthe arm to put it where you want. I would look into a max GC, Lt lower arms if you want to use a longer shock and get the pivot below the arm. If you do than you can make a relocate bracket to raise the upper shock mount and by moving the lower shock toward the ball joint and lowering it allowing for the loger shock. The wheel rate will require a softer spring which is no big deal since it needs new springs any way. I would conside a zero preload dual rate.

The rear of this do kick. I rolled my rear suspenion back to help and the longer front help levle things out. Even then it like to nose in. Whne you set up the front fiqure that in. By that I mean whatch what type of front bumper you put on it. I call it landing/approach angle. This angle is the max angle the suspenion will take nose in during fulll compression with out hanging up. The trx set up rackes back during compression which help it from going over but the angle has got to fiqured in at the max rake. This alos allowes for a steeper approach angle with busting the top. I use a belly plate under the stock plastic skid to get the max angle. This alos allow to skid the steep face if accountered.

As far as low budget goes in the rear lutrev in canada has a relocate bracket and fox airs. I'm a honda atc/trx guy my self. I understand when you say you tried to lean into the cornor. Hoodlum touched on this, thier a different animal. You will probley find that your shoulders are a little sore where the belt ride due to you instickfully try to shift you weight. I did notice you turn ins were way off scrubing way to much speed however being new to drive these it normal. The good thing is you will quickly learn to put in a cornor. The best thing here is put a quad in the lead and set upjust out side on the entry to the apex by this time finish with your breaking and roll in and power just as soon as the fornt gets a bite and roll on the gas dont gap it. This should put you both at the the same exit of the apex. The next would be an inside enrty and exit out side of him if its a s- type cornor or long straight. Ths will allow you to gap it harder sooner while he is still rolloing thu of oversteering under power. This will set you up on the outside and by this time alredy on full power and accerlating. An ya you can push him wide on the next cornor after all you are lot bigger. See you can use a lot of the same quad tricks you just have to remember what your driving. With a good set up you should be able to out break him into the cornor. The quad you can shift you weight for breaking force but in a piot you need low speed compression and a good balance.

Adnoh · « **Reply #25 on:** November 22, 2010, 12:41:38 PM »

Heres a couple vids I shot while testing my front. You may have sen them,it represent kinda what I was saying. I was doing around 45 down the straight. I added a pic of the skid that goes under the plastic front.

Adnoh · « **Reply #26 on:** November 22, 2010, 02:34:10 PM »

I went ahead and spliced together some video of the front for you to look at. This is from when I first set them up. As you can see the front are to sft and the rear to stiff. I increased the high and low speed compressiion on the front as well as increased the rebound damping. Had some bounce after landing in the front and too much compression on face. The rear even after adjusting was to stiff and had to make spring rate change and even after that a vlaving change. The compression was to stiff and rebound too slow. Thanks to FL670 there,He followed though some rollers and told me therear was to slow.

A little sand fun as well.

Evan there rear still to stiff after spring change and made another. Now the rear is under total rewrok and I made a new bump kit for the front after reviewing the video as well as GC,CG and akermin, toe,camber,caster and sag. See why I wish I had just bought a kit. I lack the neceasary skills to to it right the first time. I am having fun though. The front now work most execellent and hope to have new rear done for spring sporting new motor package.

Factory 45 · « **Reply #27 on:** November 25, 2010, 11:03:52 PM »

Happy Turkey Day everyone...had some time to put together a small montage of my most recent ride(s) check them out and sure to be more. Got a guy up here that is hooked up with Trophy Kart that invited me to come and demo one...should be fun for sure. Gonna start getting into the long travel build very soon...got some really neat arrms Im going to try and also found the FB arms used if these ones are NG for the build.

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=168387846525949&comments&ref=mf

Factory 45 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 30, 2010, 06:41:39 AM »

Ok so I stripped my rolling chassis (parts/future project pilot) Wow...talk about wear and tear. This buggy had a rough life and I feel bad for it.

So in doing so I did find some really good parts. The rear shocks are pretty worn and one has a bent shaft...so I went ahead and took it apart to see the internal workings with my own eyes. Then immediately called my shock guy because my gears started to turn again. I figured because one shock will probably need it all...why not send it to him and see if the stock units could be reworked and upgraded. He said the shaft could possibly be custom made and contain a rebound adjustment. Also the bottles could be replaced and oversized to include high and low speed compression adjustments. This could make for a better stock travel rear suspension for now until I can put together some ideas for the rear LT.

Ok so my biggest problem with this strip down has been the gearbox...The axle stubs are stuck like chuck and wont frickin budge out of the FNR. I am being careful not to pry on the case...but they need to come out. Any wisdom guys? I pulled the cages and shafts out of the stub to make it easier to pivot and manuver...also hoping the lip the boot goes over would provide a good enough edge to grab. But its pretty smoothed over. I would almost rather do the damage to the stub if anything...would welding something to the stub so I can hit it with a hammer or air hammer make sense?

odypilots · « **Reply #29 on:** November 30, 2010, 07:01:11 AM »

There have been a number of pullers devised by the community to get these buggers out. Two U bolts around the cage with chain bolted to the ends of the U bolts with weights on the other end of the chain has worked. One guy drilled through the stub and used a rod to drive the other side out. I'm not sure if the drilled one could be welded up and reused or not.