Author Topic: rear long travel  (Read 2910 times)

girth first

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rear long travel
« on: June 30, 2009, 03:45:04 PM »
alright can anyone tell me what it takes or how i can install long travel suspension. i cant see buyn a 3500 dollar kit there has to be an easier less expensive way. what all does it take any help would be great

Adnoh

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rear long travel
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2009, 07:31:20 PM »
I have a kit I made using different part. The only part now which is atvr is the axle. The rear shocks are your most expensive part. One can do a wide body kit by doing it your self using race car parts,stock shock and atvr axles. I 'm presently working on a kit using a shock that has low/high compression and rebound that will give you 11 inches of travle. I did find a supplier to make a whole new axle assembly but at a price of $800.00 a set.

What one must do to go LT is widen the rear either buying atvr arms and axles or lenghting yours. The I rod and radius rods can be purched from atvr or race shop and use shim stock to take from inch to metric. The shock atvr uses is big and requires lots of mods. The big shock is compression only due to the shaft lenght. It's to long to drill out for rebound control without snapping. A low/high speed compression is way better. And rebound settings help dial in for different riding areas. Instead of letting the shock dictate your speed adjust the shock to your speed. I used a custom built pair that bolt up to the stock locations. These came with a price but I like to ride fast and aggresive. One other thing to consider is moving the rear back it takes some of the low speed kick out of it and applies more front traction for corning. You can look over my post on my LT set up for ideas or just ask and I'll help in any way I can.

Look forward to a post in the future on my wifes LT kit using the new set up. The front will have 9"( non bump steer kit) and the rear 11". Plus four front and rear. The shock package will sport fully adjustable for under $2,000 for all four. She may even get disc as well if I can find parts. Theres has some reports of snapping the atvr axles. This is why I will install all new set up that Bolt right up with out disambley of the joints. They will be full replacment sets and stronger as well as rebuildable. I will post info I get them from mfg.  

Good luck and have fun and plese share pics.

FL670R

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rear long travel
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2009, 11:28:32 PM »
Very Nice...

"+4 front and rear. The shock package will sport fully adjustable for under $2,000 for all four."

Damnit Rich - I'll need two full sets where do I send the money to ?

This sounds like just the ticket for a pair of 2 seater Pilots I want to build...

Keep the Testing reports coming....

PS
My offer still holds I can have a roller down there rather quickly if you need another pilot to hack on....

PSS
You missed a damn nice ride at St. Joes last week...

Later
Dennis

Adnoh

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rear long travel
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2009, 11:28:11 AM »
I know I miss a whole lot of fun. I watched the video than went to garage and set in pilot and day dreamed a little. It was very hot and Family had trip planed for lake. I have been framming new house so time limited. I noticed a fall ride may be in order. Should be cooler and ready for break for ridding and some more hacking. I should make trip to new axle MFG in august for on site pre build work over.  One nice thing the new shock package should be ideal for two seater. There a big body/spring set up. Once Tobey's get mocked up I'll post up pics. I hope to ready by christmas -09. Glad every one had fun and was safe at St. Joe.

FL670R

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rear long travel
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2009, 01:08:56 PM »
Yea - It was damn hot...

Can't blame ya for opting to hit the lake with the family...

Fall trip to St Joe would also be killer, if it happens I'll have to decide between there or Little Sahara....

If you own a dirt or trail bike you gotta take it to St. Joe for some kick ass trail ridding (aka hill climbing / rock sliding / tree dodging fun)...

Hoodlum says St. Joe in June (last full week) is an annual event so put it on your calendar for the next 10+ years....

PS
Looking forward to the updates from "Back Yard Hacker" - lol

Adnoh

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rear long travel
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2009, 08:11:14 AM »
Question. ok questions.

Rear LT: Move back +1 or +2

Rear LT: Stock width +2 for the woods guy or adjustable from stock to +2
 Note: lever ratio for stock to +2 ok for spring rate dial in with compression adjustments. Rear + 4 diff rates and lever ratios.
   

Rear shock springs: 2..5 inch ID
           #1 dual rate /zero preload( tender) for sand and dirt 50% sag
            #2 dual rate 30% sag for all around
             #3 daul rate with heavier springs for two seater
             #4 owner to supply own ( more diffuclt to dial in for most)

Any thought on tender and main rates and the transition points        
200 lb rider.

Zero preload: 200 lb main

Dual rate: 95 over 200 at 30% with cross over at 5" shaft at 475 lbs's  bottom out poundage at 1000 lbs. Per shock rear.

Adnoh

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rear long travel
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2009, 07:35:56 PM »
OK tired of framing and worked in garage today. I did some hacking ( I really mean hacking)for a stock width set up using a shock that will give the stock width 8.5 inch of travle.

Issue # one was to see when it all bunded up and where stock. I found after unbolting the works shock it bound up after drooping one more inch. SO, was it suspion componets of axle? I pulled the axle and found the suspenion componets was binding. Fist to see where was to un bolt ball joint. The lower arms was nice and tight. Man I really dislike those stock parts. Yes I loosenedd up all the bolts first so it would relax to its unloaded max setting with out bushing defliction.  I check ball joint rotaion bind to see if installing new lower arms with hiems would allow greater droop. What I found was that if the ball joint was relocated rearward and the angle was changed and  lower arms were changed ( lenght) the suspion would realx another two inches.

Issue #2 Stock axle bind with relocated balljoint and different arms. I found that the axle would bind at 30 degrees and only allow for 1.5 inch more of droop to a shock depth of 21.5. The new arm relocate would takeit 23 inches of shock depth. The outer cv would take the increase but the inner would not. So I checked to see if the axle was streched out to its max if the axle max angle would change. It did help a little but still did not allow for the 8.5 shaft travle. The rear upright would need to be moved out a minium of 1-3/4 inch to work. Since I wanted to use stock width that wouldnot work for this application. I conacted Gorrila axle and ask if the replacement cv for stock applications would work. They said yes but untill I get it and see for my self I want bank on it. The repalcment cv will allow an 40 degree angle which is way with in the quidelines for the build. I only need 33 degrees.

Issue #3 shock angle in relation to rear upper arm angle at new droop setting for 2.5 inch spring. The stock arm must be reworked by change the ball joint depth from arm support. During relocate of ball joint pivot on the arm not only changin the angle it must alos be moved out 3/4 of an inch which effects teh triangulr relation ship of the lower arms( lenght change). By doing this it also changes the location of the pivot its self so it rotates an an arch maintaning the angle of the hub thu travle.

I'll stop there for now and share some pics of the hacking.

Adnoh

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rear long travel
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2009, 07:47:35 PM »
I would like to ansawer some questions you might have about the pics.

Pic one is the new cv that would need to be installed in the inner CV cup.

Pic two is the comparison of stock location and a hacked up mock up of relocated pivot. I tact up an arm based on stock changing the stock pivot to new location.

Pic three is the mocked up arm on the bike with the works shock to show how the shock angle changed moving the hub assembly rearward. The lower ams were just cut pipe and drilled to new triangled measurments so it would allow for a lower drop with out bind.

Pic four and five is the hub angles compressed and extended. Its almost dead on 90 degrees. This can be dialed in to 90 after adjustable arms are installed and fine tuned.

Side notes: The suspenion will compress further to ten inches of shaft travle but would require a shock relocate.  This would require the upper shock bracket to moved up and to the rear as not to bind on full compression.  Another issue would be frame clearence on full compression, a 22" tall tire would allow the bike frame to bottom out. This would cause sever back damage and not be recomended unless bump stopes were installed when 22" tire were installed and set.

Hers a pic of the relocated stuff with 2.5" sping over works shock for clearence #'s

throttle

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shim stock
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2009, 01:57:52 PM »
ADNOH - where have you found shim stock to go from 12mm to 1/2 inch?  Can you get it in tubes and cut to length?  I can't find any locally.  Thanks!

Adnoh

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rear long travel
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2009, 04:13:39 PM »
Still no luck finding it. I p.m.ed ya back in apr with info. Did you not get it or no luck finding it.

It can be ordered from any true value. or should. If no luck I'll get ya some. Have you alredy bought your 1/2" hiems. I'm working on using 5/8 with metric missalign spacer taking it 12mm. In case yo did not get p.m. I' post pic with info

Adnoh

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rear long travel
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2009, 04:18:44 PM »
Heres a link to some,  www.lewisbrass.com

FL670R

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rear long travel
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2009, 12:48:04 PM »
Quote from: "adnoh"

Hers a pic of the relocated stuff with 2.5" sping over works shock for clearence #'s

www.p-o-ps.com/pops1/viewtopic.php?mode=attach&id=2304



Where do you come up these cool ideas....

I have never seen shockwears on the inside of the spring before ???

On my old LT500 I had them all on the outside and was pissed to see that they wore off the powercoating on the outside of the springs....

Damn your good...

Later
D