Author Topic: new front end for my pilot  (Read 3584 times)

Adnoh

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new front end for my pilot
« on: July 27, 2008, 05:15:44 PM »
playing around with arms.

Adnoh

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new front end for my pilot
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2008, 05:21:53 PM »
few side by side of old and new.

Adnoh

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new front end for my pilot
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2008, 02:49:03 PM »
Up date on front and rear. I widened the rear and did a shock relocate. I now get 12" in front and 12" in rear. The rear get widened and a lower shock relocate bracket. using stock or stock works it will get nine and the new shocks I ordered gets twelve.

Adnoh

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new front end for my pilot
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2008, 03:04:29 PM »
some comparison pics, stock and wide body with shock relocate

PilotHawK

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« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2008, 03:37:53 PM »
Looks great! What axles did you use for the rear?

Adnoh

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« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2008, 04:02:55 PM »
You can get them form ATVR racing. They will sell you all or parts to do your self rear kit.  I ended up with 13.5 in front and 12.5 in rear using custom made shocks that feature low and high speed compression and rebound. I opped to go this route because I wanted it to look stock and and the ATVR rear shocks can not be made with rebound since the shaft is to long and most likly snap. Also you have to relocate stuff and weld on frame I got lucky and no welding was required just bolt up only. I did oops a little on a coulpe of things but thats ok no one is perfect. I will rework rear so it gets 13.5 as well using the same shock and changing the rear upper arm. I use fully adjustable lower trailing arms.

Adnoh

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« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2008, 04:12:38 PM »
The front is sporting disc break set up off a trx 450R. Which is just great. using the front change the pitch angle going into cornor and preloading for jumps.

PilotHawK

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« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2008, 05:21:45 PM »
trying to get that much travel with the stock radius arm doesn't affect toe change too much throughout the travel?

Adnoh

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« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2008, 08:19:51 PM »
Stock arm and location,Yes. Relocate with new adjustable arm using same factory mount ,NO. See pic. When I redo upper arm it will move the hub assembly back alowing it to move in an arc thu travle like the tigers. The use of fully adjustable arms alow for setting it to what ever I need as well as align a bent frame to drive straight.

PilotHawK

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« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2008, 09:24:52 PM »
I understand the point of the adjustable arms, but the shorter length of the radius arm creates a situation with a tighter arc. The shorter arc compared to what is done with an ATV Racing radius rod is where I would think you would get the larger amount of toe change VS the ATVR setup.  The only way to reclaim that distance is use an ATVR length radius rod and redesign the upper a-arm to accommodate that rearward shift as well. I am just curious as to how that would affect the entire suspension geometry. The rearward shift would affect the control arm mounts, and play havoc with trying to mount shocks. It would also place the rear tires well beyond the back of the frame.

I like what you are doing, and I had planned to do a LT setup with mine even getting the axles from ATVR, but I had planned on making mine similar to the way ATVR does it.

I'd love to see some more pictures of the suspension with a rear tire removed and in different positions of cycling, and how you mounted your shock at the hub, as well as the upper shock mount.

Thanks for your time.

Adnoh

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« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2009, 03:37:22 PM »
Good input. If you like I will reinstall toe plates with current set up and log data in 1/4 inch sections for you. The rearward relocate will not only accomdate longer wheel travle but also change weight bias which is needed with softer spring and lower ride hieght set up. The current SR is 133 and I will change to 120 SR for dirt with lower RH. This will hopfully keeep it turning as the rear is loaded thu mid of turn. Please provide any and all thoughts as well as consernes.

PilotHawK

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« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2009, 12:03:25 PM »
Thanks for sharing what you've done. I still don't see how you'll handle the lower shock mount, and control arm mounts when moving the carrier further back. Seeing what you have already done though I bet you've already got something figured out.

I look forward to seeing the setup at St Joe's.

Adnoh

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« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2009, 05:34:44 PM »
Sorry for not sharing properly PH. Or is it Dr. hawk. get it. I forgot I did not share rear rebuild with the board. Sorry.

What I did was use the same set up for the trailing arms as I did with the radius rod. I used a swedge tube with new hiems. I used brass shim stock to take it to metric. If the rear was wore out I could have drilled hub and frame mounts to 1/2". The shim stock reduces the 1/2"  to metric and parts found at any race shope cheap. I used missalignment spacers to compasate for angles and this allows the rear hub to move front and back changing the upright angle and the adjustable radius rod allows this to take place and also allows to align a bent frame to drive straight. The lower shock relocate is easy and can be made with different angles to change LR (lever ratio) of the shock and RH( ride height) using stock or stock works shocks. This also changes the poundage rates and crossover rates. You can achieve 8.5 inches in the rear using stock works and the wide body kit. It handles really nice. As it stand now the angle on the upper arm will only allow 12.5 once it is moved back changeing the upright anlge and adjusting the trialing arms and radius rod so it will allow for another inch of travle with out binding. This will alow the hub to travle in an arc as is compresses. the radius arm will pull it forward as the trailing arm being is an matching angle will move froward as the upper arm also moves forward keeping it algned. The shock relocate pushes the shock forward so when I relocate it back the new on piece plate will realign the shock . The New shocks were built with hiems in both end allowing the shock to match the angle as it compresses without binding. the shock LR( leverr ratio) changes with the compression effecting poundage thu travle. This is one reason I built a poundage spreedsheet to tract shaft travle and poundage thu travle. This is why a set of high and low speed compression was neccesary in order to dail in. If the stock works were used a compression and rebound revalve would be necessary to work with out the hitting the wall sensation as it crosses over. The triple rate will not work and a dual rate set up would be necessay or a triple rate with zero preload. The stock works has a body role issue. This is where the revlave and respring comes in. The rear roles and then bang on the main spring and the rebound is too slow causing packing. It will kick slow entry so the low speed compression corrects this. The low speed also helps dial in body role and crossover poundage. I found that the crossover needs to be around 505lb if you have low speed adjusters. This is based on a 133 lb rate at zero static laod. I have yet to start logging the 120 lb rate and to see if a if a quicker crossover is needed. the 120 lb rate will allow for a lower RH( ride height) and a lower CG( center of gravity). I figured that this with cross over to the 300lb rate at 50% of shaft travle once I hit crossover poundage.

Any way heres some pics. Agin sorry for not sharing sooner.

Adnoh

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« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2009, 05:43:54 PM »
This one is of two different setup If you look at the one showing the trailing arms you will see how by moving the upper arm back and adjusting the others it should work. and alow me to relocate new shock into upper stock hole. I will share my upper relocate for new shock next. I had 1/2 " added to shaft to accomadate the new upper arm and increase in travle.

Adnoh

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« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2009, 06:01:18 PM »
Here is some of the new upper relocate for new shock untill upper arm rework can  be done.