Author Topic: First FL350  (Read 10419 times)

flynbvr

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First FL350
« on: January 07, 2007, 07:16:17 PM »
I am new to the Odyssey world and have recently purchased my first FL350 ($1,200).

The vehicle was fairly neglected and the previous owner didnt have much information in the way of mods/work done to the engine.

At first glance you can see a water cooled head and that the carb was replaced. The vehicle starts, runs fairly strong on the bottom end but from 3/4 on it dies/custs off.


Now to my question: I need to find a reputable guru that I can send my engine to for a trustworthy evaluation. I need to get an honest answer as what has been done and what I can do to build it out as a monster 350 (all the bells and whistles).

Thank you all in advance for any help/advice you may provide.

nuke em

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First FL350
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2007, 08:01:48 AM »
First off, welcome to the board. Feel free to ask any question, the only dumb question is the one not asked. There is alot of knowledgable people here. I will try to save you some time and money by talking you through wrenching things yourself, for the most part.

1. Do you have some decent tools and an understanding of how to use them? Do you have a micrometer and a compression gage? How about a digital camera? Any previous 2-stroke machines?

2. You need a 350 manual, they are still available through Honda, on Ebay, or free to download from the internet. It has tons of critical info that you will need.

3. Sounds like you have a good performance head start, liq head and big carb. The other things that will help and most people do for better performance are, works shocks, engine porting, exhaust pipe, air filter, intake and reeds, and ofcourse a good clutch. There is alot of research you can read by looking at older posts too. That will give you alot of info to digest too.

Again welcome. Give us some more info and pictures, if possible, to help us identify what you have so we can help you out.

Gary

flynbvr

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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2007, 08:18:40 AM »
Saving money is defiitely a good thing!

I do have some tools and they are all Carftsman, although none of them are specifically for working on engines. I have wrenched on my sons Honda 50 in the past (replaced the piston, upgraded the cam, rebuilt the carb) so I would consider myself somewhat mechanically inclined.

I do not have a micrometer or a compression gauge. I do have a digital camera and no previous two stroke experience.

I purchased the shop manual over the weekend and I should have it by weeks end.

I spent the weekend tearing down the 350. All I have left is to take the engine out provide the frame with some support and take off the suspension/wheels.

I have two snapped bolts that I need to deal with. I also took some time rebuilding the carb. Its a mess, the choke needle is broken in two, the slide is scuffed, bent and generally hosed. I'm pretty sure i just want to replace it with a new flat slide version vs the round slide it is.

So, whats next? What am I looking for in a micrometer and a compression gauge?

nuke em

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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2007, 08:36:36 PM »
I hope some of the tools are metric, but if you have it mostly stripped down, then I guess they are. You will use alot of 8,10,12,14,17MMs. It sounds like you can handle wrenches too, that helps..LOL. ONLY use quality full synthetic 2-stroke oil, Golden Spectro, Belray H1R, Klotz, ect. Avoid Valvoline, Penzoil, boat oils, weedeater oils, ect. You can saftly run 40-32:1 mix with the quality oils. The manual calls for 20:1, but in 1985 there was not good synthetics avalible.

OK, the compression gauge is fairly common and cheap. (Ebay, pawn shops, even parts stores and Wallyworld)I regularly check my compression after rides and write it down. It gives a great story about the condition of the rings. 2 strokes use up rings fairly quick(1-2 years) with lots of use. Its also a great way to tell if something bad is about to go or gone.

The micrometer is not nessisary as other tools, but when checking bores sizes, belt widths, wear on parts, ect, thats when it comes in handy. Harbor Freight has a nice digital for $15 that does metric and standard. Its a dead ringer for the Craftsman that costs $100.

2 strokes are fairly touchy about being properly jetted. Too rich and it blubbers alot and fouls plugs, too lean and you will sieze the piston and probably have to buy another.

Smart man getting the manual! You will find alot of your answers there too.

You can find alot of cheap used flat slide carbs on Ebay. Do a search for CR250 carb, CR 250 carb, TRX 250 carb, Keihin carbs, ect. Most of the carbs are larger than the stock 32MM round slide. I personally like the 38MM airstriker and 39MM PWK, but my engines are ported, piped, and built up to breathe. We can get you there too.

 I would like to see some pictures of the 350 in general, then a picture of the exhaust pipe and silencer, liq head, carb, reeds, intake boot, airfilter setup, and (intake ports, exhaust ports, transfer ports and sleeve) if you pull the jug.

I am all about saving as much money as possible so I do my own work when I can.

Hope this is helpful to you. Keep posting back with anything,
Gary

flynbvr

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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2007, 11:23:39 PM »
I took some pics before I started to tear her down. I will take some additional photos tomorrow morning. The internal pics will have to wait until the weekend when I take the motor out and get split the case.

Im very excited you metioned Belray as I have been using their products for years and absolutlely live by them on my other bikes (predator 500 TLD edition, 2001 400XR built stonger than a locomotive and my kids honda 50 race bike).

I did a quick search on harbors site but cant find any micrometer. I have to go by there later this week to pick up a glass bead machine and a few other items (btw - I do have a digital caliper from harbor if that helps).

Would this http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94190 be a good alternative to the compression gauge and/or air leak tester sold at aftershockmotorsports?

My goal is port, polish and go big so I am looking forward to the journey. Thank you Gary for your help today and in the future!

nuke em

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« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2007, 09:05:02 AM »
I have been using the Belray products for years too. I do suggest using the H1R over the MC1 oils.

I need a glass bead machine, very nice! I have an old canister sand blaster, messy but works well.

I bought that Harbor freight compression setup in the red case. Its made for auto use. The compression gauge you need should be a simple meter that can read up to 200lbs, single line and an adaptor that will screw in to the spark plug hole, most readings are 100-150lbs on a 350. I bought a couple from Ebay for $5-10 bucks a couple of years ago.

The leakdown tester is a different animal. What you do is plug the exhaust hole on the engine, then plug the intake boot. After that slowly pressurize the engine with 6-10 lbs and watch it with a low pressure guage. If it holds the pressure for 10 minutes or more, all is good. If it leaks out, then you have a leak, not good on a 2 stroke, it will cause a lean condition and eventually a siezure. Leaks can be anywhere, base gaskets, head gaskets, reed gaskets, crank seal, ect.  If its leaking, squirt soapy water to help find the leak(bubbles). I change main crank seals(3) on rebuilds anyway, they tend to leak when they are old. My $15 homemade leakdown tester is basically a PVC end with a valve stem mounted for adding air(clamped into the intake, a thin flap of rubber and a round meal plate that bolts/seals the exhaust port, and a 15lb guage that attaches to the crank case hose that drives the fuel pump.

Where are you located? Maybe we have someone near you that can lend a hand. Keep posting your progress and ask any questions you feel like asking. Hope this helps some,
Gary

brocklee1976

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« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2007, 01:52:16 PM »
have any pics of your leak down tester setup?

flynbvr

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« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2007, 05:03:10 PM »
Some pics before and during the teardown

Will provide more pics as the project progresses along with the internal engine pics this weekend

Weed

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fl350
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2007, 08:58:44 AM »
Nice garage floor!!!!!

nuke em

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« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2007, 06:51:56 PM »
Thats the first thing I noticed too Weed, great floor! The exhaust pipe appears to be a DG or possibly a Bills. Does it have any markings or plates weld/rivited to it? The liq head looks like a Kleem or a Rand. I have the same one on one of my machines, works well and and has a smaller than most combustion chamber/dome which brings up the compression. The front shocks are stockers, but I can't see the rears very well.

Any tear down progress? I'll post some pictures of my leakdown tester for you when I get back home, stuck working late at the base tonight.

Gary

flynbvr

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« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2007, 06:54:34 PM »
Thanks guys for the compliment. The garage is a WIP as well. Had the ceiling enclosed with flooring up top and drop down ladder. Cabinets on all walls with extruded aluminum handles. You can see my workbench in todays photos. I have a pull out tool chest in the middle that increases my workspace. Overall its pretty sweet although I wish it was done already.

So, got my shop manual yesterday and started the process of pulling the motor and tearing it down. Pay close attention to the gooey consistency of the radiator fluid and the floaties (one of them is actually a bug).

It appears that the gaskets have been used through multiple tear-downs/services. The gasket on the bottom of the cylinder was actually missing a corner (filled in with liquid gasket).

Picking up my glass bead machine http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=45411 from Harbor Freight tomorrow and was thinking of picking up a parts washer http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=7340 as well (unless anyone can come up with a better way of (pre) cleaning parts).

I am definitely going to need new o-rings for the head so if someone can positively identify it and tell me where to get them it would be of great help.

Ive gotten as far as pulling the cylinder so if there are any pics you want to see up to that point let me know and I will get them posted ASAP.

PS - who owns this message board? I tried to get on it this morning and it was down. I have a datacenter that I can host the site at. Give them the good word  :D

PilotHawK

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First FL350
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2007, 09:00:44 PM »
Fortunately the piston looks new. I say this because you are on the last bore of this cylinder. I hope the cylinder walls are in good shape, otherwise you will need to find a "new"er cylinder or get this one resleeved if it needs boring.

The dome in the head appears to be in good condition, and there doesn't appear to be too much spooge in the exhaust port.

You've got a great start going. Keep up the good work.

When you get the cylinder off how bout a few good pics of the bore and ports.

flynbvr

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« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2007, 01:46:22 AM »
Dumb question but how can you tell that Im on the last bore of this cylinder? My plan is to put in an 82mm piston (that is if its not already).

I forgot to mention the markings on the current piston dome (1028L & 533M08200). Does anyone know what they mean or where I go to find out?

More pics to come.

ludedude

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« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2007, 06:18:51 AM »
Quote from: "flynbvr"
PS - who owns this message board? I tried to get on it this morning and it was down. I have a datacenter that I can host the site at. Give them the good word  :D


That would be me :)  PM me some details...I' always open to new things...I run a few sites now so.... ;)

Weed

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« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2007, 06:59:48 AM »
Yep, like PilotHawk said you my friend are on your last bore.  The part number for Wiseco pistons tell you the current piston size.  

533m08200

The last four numbers is the piston size.  82.00mm.....you may get away with running your current piston.  If your clearance has not exceeded .008 inches you can re-ring the piston and give it a hone to break the cylinder glaze and run it till the end.  After that you will need to have it resleeved or replaced.