Author Topic: 2-Stroke Oils & Mixing Ratios  (Read 3421 times)

PilotSniper

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2-Stroke Oils & Mixing Ratios
« on: February 20, 2006, 10:11:49 AM »
We've all seen or at least heard about the "old" 20:1 mixing ratio that's printed on the stickers of our toys. 20:1 is a thing of the past, due to the improvements in newer 2-stroke oils, right? At least that's what I've read most of the time on Pilot/Odyssey forums. For the most part, you'll read that it is okay to recommend a 32:1 mixing ratio when utilizing some of these quality 2-stroke oils. Names like Yamalube 2R, Motul 800 2T, Honda HP2, etc. get tossed around a lot. There are many high-quality 2-stroke oils out there and everyone has their own particular favorite. What the general consensus will tell you, though, is to stay the hell away from the "Wally World" 2-stroke oils. You know, the ones sold at your local hardware store that is meant for chainsaws and such. I can agree with that, simply basing my thoughts on common sense. A chainsaw engine is nowhere near as temperamental as our buggy's engines, especially if they're modified, so I'll buy into the theory of using high-quality oils.

Here's where logic gets railroaded, though. Who came up with the new 32:1 mixing ratio? Don't get me wrong, I use it and I'm okay with it, but the last time I sat back and asked my engine, "Hey, buddy, are you getting enough lubrication in there?", I didn't get a reply. The only indication I've ever gotten to possibly let me know that I'm doing okay in the engine lubrication department is when I did my last top-end job. When I removed the jug, everything below it was nicely coated. Does that mean that my engine is getting enough lubrication or the right type of lubrication? At this point, I can only guess.

As always, I like to do some reading when I see something that doesn't make sense to me. Recently, I read a thread where a guy with a Pilot was using a mixing ratio of 70:1!!! At first, I thought to myself, "What a wacko!!!". It was not until I Googled his oil brand that I decided to investigate further. He's using Amsoil Saber Professional 2-Stroke oil and they recommend 100:1 as their mixing ratio of preference for everything!!! How could they do that? Are they nuts or are they onto something that nobody else knows about? Here's the link to their website. Read it for yourself and you decide:

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atp.aspx

On the other end of the spectrum is an article recommending just the opposite of what I've read on all of the Pilot/Odyssey forums. This guy is promoting the use of a 20:1 mixing ratio and gives his plausible rationale as to why. Here's the link to his article:

http://www.dansmc.com/2stroke_oil.htm

So, which one is right and why? Based on all of the different articles I've come across on the internet, I can safely say that there's probably no definitive answer, but I'd like to see what everyone thinks about these huge differences in mixing ratios.

Post away!!!
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ludedude

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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2006, 11:07:21 AM »
This is my line of thinking, I haven't reasearched this, so keep that in mind.

Today's oils have (the quality oils) have beter lubricating properties and resistance to breakdown of their properties. Todays engines are designed with that in mind, so running a 2000+ 2 stroke with 100:1 oil should be fine.

I question the ability of older engines to make due with the lesser amount of oil in the mix, regardless of it's quality. I therefore run Amsoil (think it's a 50:1 oil), and run it at 40:1. I wouldn't be comfortable going to a 100:1 oil in a 15 year old pilot.

32:1 ratio came from your imperial gas jug/oil container sizes I think. I went to 40:1 because I usually throw 20litres in a 5 gallon jug, and then add a water bottle full (500ml = 1/2 litre) into it for 40:1. I saved a half dozen water bottles that were 500ml and I pour oil in to those to take on trips, no measuring needed...throw 20 litres gas in at the pumps and dump a bottle in ;)

PilotSniper

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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2006, 11:55:36 AM »
Lude,

Out of curiosity, on the Amsoil, are you using the "Dominator" or the "Interceptor" brand?

Dominator - http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/tdr.aspx

Interceptor - http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/ait.aspx

Just wondering...

Anyhow, maybe that 100:1 Saber is just a higher viscosity? Do you think it's just marketing? If so, aren't they putting unsuspecting people's engines at risk? I can see a guy mixing that particular oil at 100:1 and then switching brands, only to continue to mix at 100:1. I think it just adds more unnecessary confusion to an already confusing segment of the market.

By the way, make sure you separate the real water bottles from the 2-stroke water bottles or you might just end up expelling YOUR exhaust gases on the rich, smoky side...

 :P
I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left!  :shock:

ludedude

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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2006, 12:07:56 PM »
Without going out to check....I think it's Dominator ;)

<smokey fart>  :roll:

PilotHawK

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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2006, 01:42:57 PM »
Well lets throw one of the wally world blends in there just for the hell of it why don't we! Here is an awesome article based on real world data.
http://www.ultralightnews.com/features/oilworks.htm
and one more.
http://www.ultralightnews.com/features/oiltest.htm

I know thses articles were written for ultralights, but the data should have some value. Before you jump to conclusions about anything, know that ultralights and atv's aren't the same. For the most part ultralights are run at a fairly constant RPM whereas atv's aren't. Still a hell of a good read though.

PilotSniper

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« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2006, 02:08:48 PM »
Wow! Nice read on those articles Hawk!!!

I'll have the Blue Wally oil, please!!! :wink:
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Toyman

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2 stroke oil
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2006, 05:40:25 PM »
That was very interesting to read the results of their testing.

I've never been sold on the high end synth. oils.
Toyman

Moskito

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2-Stroke Oils & Mixing Ratios
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2006, 08:04:31 AM »
It would be interesting to see what ratio a sled engine, water craft engine or any other two stroke engine that uses an oil injection circuit mixes.

My old Suzuki Gamma (1986 motocycle - two stroke, square four, 500cc) was oil injected and it seems that I would run through three to four tanks of fuel (4 gallons or so? - don't really recall) between oil tank refills.  I can't recall the tank's volume - seems like it was somewhere around 20 oz, but who knows anymore.

I also just asked Jay about this (I'm in Phoenix right now - Warm, sunny, BEAUTIFUL and NOT Ohio).  He said that the majority of Japanese & Canadian stuff usually mixes around 50:1 or so, but some of the European (he mentioned Aprilla) stuff will mix as lean as 100:1 with oil injection systems.

What about boat powerplants?  I wonder what ratio they use?  Yamaha makes a killer fuel injected boat engine - but I don't know anything about the oil injection system of these engines.

Just throwing out thoughts to fuel (lube? :roll: ) this series of posts.
Moskito - Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming \'WOW-What a Ride!\'