Author Topic: Re: Busted the cage in my inner cv on the LT  (Read 9491 times)

Factory 45

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Re: Busted the cage in my inner cv on the LT
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2012, 12:09:53 PM »
Odypilots...noticed you mentioned the droop length on the shocks you are running is pulling the cage all the way out to the end of the cup? Out of curiosity...what kind of shocks are you running? Is this setup on long travel? Or is it a shock that squeezes extra travel using all the oem arms and geometry...with the stock axles?

odypilots

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Re: Busted the cage in my inner cv on the LT
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2012, 04:30:00 AM »
It's an ATV Racing long travel kit, and actually at droop the cage goes so far IN it allows the axle to bang the cup. The shocks are 12 inch travel Foxx Airs that are about 1 1/2 longer that the Kings that came with the package. Limit straps are one solution, but I plan to shorten the shocks with internal spacers. The short term answer is to tip the tops of the rear tires in which changes the angle to prevent the contact. Now that I think of it, that fix may allow the cage to  bottom out in the cup.
The usual 'my two cents' disclaimer applies. :)

hoodlum

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Re: Busted the cage in my inner cv on the LT
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2012, 09:49:41 AM »
Got any idea how much the cv likes before hitting the stop ring? If it has enough room,the cup could be machined down and a new ring slot put in....Or,the axle shaft could be cut,shortened,and re-welded.....

LiveWire

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Re: Busted the cage in my inner cv on the LT
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2012, 10:41:09 AM »
Maybe you can adjust the lateral links out longer. Generally speaking, those type joints can handle more angle than they normally are set up for if they are not plunged in. Also generally speaking, you get plunge on compression. So you have and can handle the most angle when the axle is out near the edge of the cup and it plunges as the angle is reduced. It is a cross groove joint like a VW Type I/II or Porsche 930. Those joints don't have retaining rings. The axle holds the inner race in.

odypilots

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Re: Busted the cage in my inner cv on the LT
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2012, 01:23:55 PM »
 I have lengthened the lower links, but the upper arm isn't adjustable, leading to the camber change.

And I had it wrong in my earlier post, tipping the rear tires in may allow the cage to hit the retaining ring, not bottom out. Is that what you are referring to by relocating the snap ring groove, Hoodlum?
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LiveWire

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Re: Busted the cage in my inner cv on the LT
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2012, 01:49:07 PM »
Yeah, I realized that. I am kind of thinking it is the adjustment out, not the camber change specifically that helps. So if there was a way to adjust the upper arm out, that might get rid of the hit on the retaining ring. I am wondering if you can just remove the retaining ring, be careful until installed and let the axle keep the cage and race in the cup.

Adnoh

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Re: Busted the cage in my inner cv on the LT
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2012, 02:57:55 PM »
This pic may help a little. I incounterd theame thing while playing around with the LT upper arm of atvr and there axle. I solved my issue by moving out theupper arm out and lenghtin the lowers.

Factory 45

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Re: Busted the cage in my inner cv on the LT
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2012, 04:34:34 PM »
Does ATVR make the replacement arms with threaded ends and heims...or do you have to actually add length? Odypilots...did those guys tone down the MX course for buggies? I would imagine a set of whoops or a few big jumps would constantly smash the crap out of those cups...both @ droop and compressed? Or is the upward motion not presenting as much of an issue?

odypilots

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Re: Busted the cage in my inner cv on the LT
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2012, 06:09:15 PM »
Yeah, I realized that. I am kind of thinking it is the adjustment out, not the camber change specifically that helps. So if there was a way to adjust the upper arm out, that might get rid of the hit on the retaining ring. I am wondering if you can just remove the retaining ring, be careful until installed and let the axle keep the cage and race in the cup.

I agree, it's the lengthening that does the job, the camber change is just a by product of not being able to lengthen the upper arm. On mine, the ring doesn't take the hit, it's the cup outside of the ring that gets it. It does mushroom the metal over the ring, so it can be tough to get the ring out. The cup would still be hit even if the ring was out. Unless you're saying take the ring out so it doesn't get hit by the cage from the inside after lengthening the top arm.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 06:24:43 PM by odypilots »
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odypilots

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Re: Busted the cage in my inner cv on the LT
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2012, 06:11:58 PM »
This pic may help a little. I incounterd theame thing while playing around with the LT upper arm of atvr and there axle. I solved my issue by moving out theupper arm out and lenghtin the lowers.

That's it. I don't have the means to lengthen the upper, so it's easier for me to shorten the shocks.
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odypilots

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Re: Busted the cage in my inner cv on the LT
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2012, 06:20:23 PM »
Does ATVR make the replacement arms with threaded ends and heims...or do you have to actually add length? Odypilots...did those guys tone down the MX course for buggies? I would imagine a set of whoops or a few big jumps would constantly smash the crap out of those cups...both @ droop and compressed? Or is the upward motion not presenting as much of an issue?

I don't know if the ATVR lowers are adjustable, but mine (used) came with adjustable lowers. The upper is fixed, though. Mine doesn't have a problem with the cage hitting the ring on maximum compression as of now, but may if the upper was lengthened. Does yours, Adnoh?

I haven't been back to the track that was so extreme, this broke on a track that's suitable for me.
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Adnoh

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Re: Busted the cage in my inner cv on the LT
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2012, 07:24:19 AM »
No mine does not hit either way. I built a gig so I could build my own after a few failures in the arm building dept. As you look at the pic and the distance of the CV from the face of the cup and the angle of the axle you can see how by bringin it out closer to the front the distance between the hcupand the axle increases and thus allowing additional angle or droop. There is a point where the lowers and the radius rod come into play playing a pat in cv bind in the outer joint. With adjustable units you can dial in the amont of travle and the bind point. This also plays a part in the ball joint bid of the hub assembly. As you go futher in droop the hubs vertacle set point needs to changed a little to keep it from binding. I mention this as it alos addresses the question of bind at compression. If not set correctlythe ball joint will bind before the cv at full compression. What I found was adjust things to cv bind at droop than adjus teh radius rod for 1/4" before bind and use this number as the shock extended lenght point. If you using exhisting upper shock mount points than measure the eye to eye of those point and subtract 1/8" Then move the assembly to full compression taking into acount the frams bottoming out position using the tire and wheel combonation and measure for your eye to eye for shock strok and than calculate your ride height poundage and bottom out poundage. I feel it does no good to go past framae bottoming as it can lead to a bad back and broken parts. If you have more stroke on the shock than your bottom out point than you need to add bump stops or shaft spacers unless you use  tire combnation that allowes for a increase in the bottom out number. Now looking at this there is more advantage in droop in relation to overall travle and it's set point. As you set up your rear arms using what ever combo this should be taken into account. I my case I not olny move the arm out I moved it back. It changes the rear asemblys arc of travle and balance front to rear. I'm not saying do this it just work for me and my set up. I was playing with an adjustable upper arm using a hiem in place of the no longeravalible ball joint however the increae in arm travle can not be matched to a a cv set up as yet. I can easly get 16 to 18" out of it. I think Odypilots on the correct path by limiting his travle via the shock for his set up. if he was to move the mount up to fix the bind at droop it would cause an issue in his bottom out point and could hurt. I pull a few more pics from the file on compression of the cv and axle to compare to the one I posted on droop. The axle plung is great. I also have a few pick using an angle finder to calculate the max anlges and the running angles of the stock axle assembly with the atvr axle.  If would evere cool off I will do some video to go with this discussiona dn some clearenc pic of the atvr and the longer upper.  Hopefully some one can build on this and improve the exhisting application.

odypilots

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Re: Busted the cage in my inner cv on the LT
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2012, 07:48:50 AM »
Thanks, Adnoh.
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Adnoh

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Re: Busted the cage in my inner cv on the LT
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2012, 09:40:45 AM »
Your welcome. I found a few pics to share. let us know what you ended up doing for futher reference.
There is some preety cool things going on in the pics if you look close. One can draw some conclusions from the pics.

Adnoh

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Re: Busted the cage in my inner cv on the LT
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2012, 09:42:37 AM »
couple more pics
 I think I have a few vids of the 16 to 18 inch travle less axle assemblys I'll look.