Author Topic: Bought another odyssey: FL350 this weekend  (Read 4990 times)

ZeroClient

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Bought another odyssey: FL350 this weekend
« on: June 02, 2014, 09:52:48 AM »
Hey guys,  I bought an FL250 about 2 weeks ago, and now an FL350 just a couple days back.  The FL250 is undergoing major engine over-haul and I posted in the other section.  I wanted to get some advice for my FL350 though, as it's currently undergoing surgery.

First a little bit about the machine.  It looks good and runs.  It starts cold with about 2 pulls.  Once warmed its one pull.  Engine appears to have slightly low compression being at 110psi but it RUNS.  The unit is complete minus the fenders.  Rust has gotten into some of the bells and joints but nothing is broken.  The frame is straight.  It appears to not have suffered any major roll-overs or damage.

Here are the current projects for it:
1. I'm going to make the electric start a big deal.  The starter was full of oil and is getting rebuild with new contacts.  Why the starter is such a PITA to install/remove behooves me.
2. I guess oil is leaking from the balance shaft portion of the motor into the stator cover.  Do I / should I reroute or rebuild something to prevent this issue?
3. Friend gave me a perfect fit working battery. CHECK
4. The brake master cyl needs at least a rebuild.  It doesn't work at all.
5. The e-brake handle is there, but the lever broke off the back caliper.
6. All slave brake hydrolics are getting a WD40 workout to smooth and streamline their operation
7. The kart only has a lap belt.  I thought it was supposed to come with a 4 point?  Hand straps are in-tact.
8. The thing wont fit in my truck cause the rear tires are wider than what they are supposed to be.
9. Its only got a 1gallon fuel tank gravity fed.  I'm adding a Mikuni fuel pump to help with high RPM lean operation problem.
10. I believe the seat of the needle/seat is leaking around it's O-Ring as the carb overflows drip drip drip
11. I added a fuel on/off switch from a spare unit I had on a parts jetski
12.  This thing looks so bad-ass I cant wait to ride it.
13. All the suspension springs are rusted but are still operable.
14. The front brake shoes are down to the last 2~3mm of material
15. Headlights work. Its missing one rear-view mirror.
16. While in there, I'm replacing the engine crank seal behind the stator since I thought the oil was from worn crank seals before I realized the balance shaft has a design defect.  New crank seal.
17. There a 'Comet' drive clutch on this thing that looks to have been on there forever so I'm not sure if it's factory or aftermarket.
18. The drivetrain from the engine to the ground seem sound and operate
19. Shift lever is missing a handle/ball so its uncomfortable to activate but it DOES work for both fw and reverse.

Am I forgetting anything?  Are there any core reliability things I should definitely do before something breaks and blows open a money pit?

Pics coming

ZeroClient

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Re: Bought another odyssey: FL350 this weekend
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2014, 09:57:17 AM »
Pics

ZeroClient

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Re: Bought another odyssey: FL350 this weekend
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2014, 10:08:23 AM »
I paid $1450.  I don't think that was all that bad considering it runs and mostly working?  These things hardly come up for sale complete like this?

odypilots

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Re: Bought another odyssey: FL350 this weekend
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2014, 02:08:30 PM »
Cograts  on the purchase. I can't address all your points, but here's a couple.

Yeah, the starter is tough to get to while the engine is in the buggy. I guess it just comes from being a small machine.

They did come with a 4 point seat belt.

The wheels must have the wrong offset. The stock offsets are hard to find, especially for the front.

The Duster clutch isn't stock, but I've heard they are a good replacement.

The rear axles can take out a rear shock if the u joint let's go. I'm not sure if they are still available, but they are pricey if they are.

I hope you get it all together quickly!
The usual 'my two cents' disclaimer applies. :)

ZeroClient

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Re: Bought another odyssey: FL350 this weekend
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2014, 07:59:58 PM »
I pulled the head just to see if compression is an issue. Likely not. The cyl has been bored over 1mm and is measuring 81mm.  That makes this engine exactly 350cc whereas factory is either 321 or 342.  Nice.

I did find the head bolts may not have been torqued correctly which could lower compression. The head looks stock but didn't measure.

Factory 45

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Re: Bought another odyssey: FL350 this weekend
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2014, 10:27:36 PM »
I would check the cyl. for wear/taper. Also check the piston and rings for wear. Finally would check the crankshaft for big end play...and main bearing play. It sounds like you are gonna end up into this thing pretty far...with all that you put on the list. But if the stock fuel tank is gone...should be easier to work on the engine in the machine. IF YOU DONT KNOW ENGINE REPAIR...DONT try to do it all yourself...and don't trust the guy who ONLY put piston rings in his kids KX 80. A/C FL350 has some very specific machining specs and procedures to follow to keep you from seizing up when heating up. Most can be found here...as can the oil mod procedure. Good luck as you get into it...many here have done repairs and can give you some good advise.

ZeroClient

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Re: Bought another odyssey: FL350 this weekend
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2014, 02:16:02 PM »
Thanks Factory,

On my FL250 I just had it professionally bored .25 over.  Split the cases and put all new Honda parts including a doner head, Honda piston, rings, new crank bearings, and seals.  That engine is completing rebuild later this weekend as parts come in and will get +/- pressure tested before install.  I also serviced the tranny (FL250) and rebuilt it's fuel pump and carb with all new lines.  I've rebuilt now a couple two stroke Jetski engines which are actually more difficult due to most being of 2 and 3 cyl configuration.  My FL250 should probably be together before the FL350.

I sure am a lot deeper into the FL350.  Im not going to do anything or replace the top-end as the engine seems to run well.  At this point I'm thinking compression may have been low due to the head not torqued all the way as there were signs of leakage.  The cyl walls look good with no scoring.  THe piston top actually looked extremely good or even new as it did not have any carbon build-up at all (Not sure why really but maybe its cause the carb's seat is leaking/flooding).  Cyl has the exhaust bridge and it looks good.  I don't have a boroscope.  Once I get the rebuilt starter in I'm surely going to test a ton before I start it.  Still LOTS to do.

I rebuilt the brake master cyl last night. Boy what a biatch to bleed.  The brakes are still too soft but better than nothing.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2014, 02:19:28 PM by ZeroClient »

girth first

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Re: Bought another odyssey: FL350 this weekend
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2014, 07:30:11 PM »
Your braking issue maybe due to stock rubber brake lines. if you dont have them replaced its a must, s/s brake lines makes a great improvement on soft brakes. you need to pay attention to the u joints as well. i bought one that i drove before i purchased it but wasnt viable from me being i n the drivers seat, but low and behold when i got it home and the boy was driving it it was quite noticable. next thing ya know it snapped and 900 dollars later it wa back on the trail. It will wipe out your shock and any stock one you find will be almost 30 years old so your best bet will be after market, i got some works shocks myself and i am very satisfied with the ride but i got lucky and found a used one with no play in it on evelbay. good luck with your rebuild,as you may already noticed there is plenty of good advise from this forum

ZeroClient

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Re: Bought another odyssey: FL350 this weekend
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2014, 05:12:27 AM »
I've got the brakes working relatively well and with rubber lines.  The rears can lock up as can the front left.  I'm going to bleed out the front right one more time and then take it from there.

My U-Joints do not have any play in the joints specifically; but then the part that slides onto the transmission output shafts 'splines' both have significant play.  I guess I'll remove the rear tires, jack up the kart, and run with the rear-end lifted to see any kind of wobbling.


The big thing right now is this kart's engine.  I removed the head again to check whats up with compression, as after ~15 minutes of runtime the compression dropped to 100psi (Down from 110 when bought).  Again, I found an 81mm Wisco in there which looks great so I scratched my head a bit.  Then I noticed the top ring had significant end-gap, so I said OH NO that cant be right.  I pulled the cyl off.  Picton looks good but worn. Cyl looks good needs hone.  Look at these ring gaps (Pics coming)

The better one (Bottom ring) had 0.084" of gap!  New should be ~0.009 and service limit is 0.020.  I didn't even measure the top ring but it was way worse actually.  Needless to say that's the cause of my low compression.  I actually don't know if the rings were really just worn, or perhaps someone did not bore to match the piston correctly, or a combination of both?

I've ordered a Wiesco 82mm kit off eGay which seemed to be a good deal especially with the exhaust bridge prepped: http://www.ebay.com/itm/181425438789?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 05:31:58 AM by ZeroClient »

ZeroClient

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Re: Bought another odyssey: FL350 this weekend
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2014, 05:25:22 AM »
Pics. The one with less gap is 0.084".  I'm very glad the rings didn't snag an intake port.


Hilbily4x4

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FL-350 Resuscitation
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2014, 12:14:59 PM »
Hey Zero- congrats on the purchases.
My FL350 is in about the same shape as it was sitting a while before I got it.  I am going through many of the same steps that you are to revive the beast.  I just replaced all my fuel lines, filter, on-off valve, pulse tube, fuel "pump" only to find that my carburetor lets all the fuel leak through it whether machine is running or not.  Also it randomly just dies when I do get it running.  I hope both of these issues are caused by the same problem- carburetor.  You seems to know a lot more than me about engines though.  What carburetor are you going to be using?  Do you think I just need to rebuild mine?  I think my engine and carburetor currently are stock.  My fuel tank is mounted above the engine so it is gravity-fed or gravity-assisted working with the new rectangular fuel pump I put on.  What I don't understand is why it didn't leak before.  You may be interested in doing a fuel tank like mine.  I have never seen another one with my exact set up but it works great and doesn't stick outside of the roll cage much at all.  At first I thought it was a super ghetto-fix and I wanted to get an aluminum tank but now that I am more familiar with the buggy I like my plastic tank.
Thank you for your detailed posts and any advice that you send my way!

ZeroClient

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Re: Bought another odyssey: FL350 this weekend
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2014, 04:43:35 AM »
If your carb is overflowing then the engine is running way rich and also consuming excess fuel meaning it's gonna run slow. I'm attempting to run the stock carb for now. Unfirtunately I don't think rebuild kits are available?  Also the seat of the needle/seat cannot be replaced on these carbs which sucks. Because once the seat goes you can toss the carb.

You can buy a new needle from jets r us though. Doing so may solve your overflow is sure. When you pull the carb off, put a fuel line to the carbs fuel inlet and blow with your mouth into the line. Right side up the carb should vent as to normally allow fuel. If it still flows mouth-air while precisely holding the carb upside down then your needle/seat is worn because it should not flow like that. Replace your carb needle of the needle/seat may fix this.

I'm pretty sure you need a new carb needle, or a new carb.

While in there blast everything with carb cleaner.

Next question- do you have a fuel return line to the tank?  The right setup it to have the fuel pump loop a supply and return line to and from the tank. The fuel is supposed to flow kinda in a circular motion, while the carb is essentially just T'd off this circular loop. There's a specific one-way T valve in the honda parts list. You might need to buy this. If you run the pumps output directly to the carb, it's too much pressure. The carb will overflow do to huge needle/seats inability to blow the pumps static pressure.

Hope this helps. Call me at 678.778.5533 if you have any questions.

ZeroClient

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Re: Bought another odyssey: FL350 this weekend
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2014, 03:55:49 AM »
Back to my rebuild.

I'm done ordering parts for now I hope. I put the wise I 82mm piston into a new bore with 0.0045 clearance. The piston also has exhaust bridge holes for cooling. With the pull start the engine now has 145psi compression, and tgat may go up to 155 after the rings seat (30 minutes runtime).  I'm sure it's gonna get too hot but I'll at least give it some go time.

I know I've still got to buy a fuel tank, and probably a spal fan or water cooled head. This thing is gonna be fun!

ZeroClient

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Re: Bought another odyssey: FL350 this weekend
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2014, 10:03:11 AM »
I get it all back together, running and all. The stock carb is junk so I had to order a new.  In the meantime I tried the running with my known good FL250 carb, and the FL350 ran fantastic with it.  Plug was rich all over the range so its safe but probably not optimal.

I do have to break the engine way back down however - as the bore and hone work didn't address everything with the exhaust bridge.  As I removed the head I saw the clearance may have been put too tight at 0.0045 as not only are the rings pushing in the cyl hard enough to score and create metal/metal contact, but also the exhaust bridge has turned a mild blue.  Surely I do not think this engine would have survived past break-in.  I'm going to have the cyl's honed out to about 0.0055" as well as an extra 0.0035 on the exhaust bridge alone.  Hopefully this will help and stop any clearance seizure.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 11:34:34 AM by ZeroClient »

ZeroClient

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Re: Bought another odyssey: FL350 this weekend
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2014, 11:35:56 AM »
I found my right rear tire has a slow leak. The tire bead needs to be re-seated with sealant to hopefully help.