Author Topic: New Owner: ~1980 FL250!  (Read 4774 times)

ZeroClient

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New Owner: ~1980 FL250!
« on: May 23, 2014, 05:25:27 AM »
First post!  Let me say howexcited I am to be part of the community!

I just took in on trade a 1980s Honda Odyssey FL250 for an older jetski which I was not attached to.  The FL250 is in pretty good shape, and for the price I really don't want to embarrass anyone or it's former owner.  Lets just say I got a great deal on a running drivable FL250!  I know two-strokes, but I don't know these things.  Jet Skis I'm used to are all two-strokes which I've wrenched and rebuilt on, so this go-cart isn't going to be any more or less difficult.

I understand the important nature of 2-stroke oiling so I'll post my questions in this order:

1. First is, the fuel pump is leaking. I took it all apart and cleaned it, replaced ALL fuel lines and cleaned the filter.  The fuel pump still has a slow drip leak.  It'll probably be OK for several test drives now but I really don't want the leak to continue.  I was thinking of maybe trying some Yamabond/RTV coating on the leaky seals of the pump to see if this helps, but failing that I'll likely need a rebuild kit or gravity feed tank.  Thoughts?

2. I was given a Clymer manual. In it, says I should be mixing 20:1 oil/gas.  In my jetskis I always premix 40:1 using Amsoil Dominator (Race oil) and never had an issue.  I usually keep ~10 gallons of 40:1 around for my skis.  Does this FL250 really need 20:1 or will the 40:1 be alright?  I don't have much issue lowering to 20:1, but that does seem kinda rich.

3. The engine starts pretty good, has no leaks from what I can tell of the main seal.  I cant see the seal under the starter cover.  The engine turns over extremely smooth.  Finger compression test feels good.  Real compression test using a known accurate (with Jetskis) Snap-On compression gauge reveals ~115psi on this FL250.  The book says it should be 128psi, so I'm about 10psi low.  After a couple test drives the spark plug read is looking pretty well-off in the grey scale.  I'll monitor more.

4. The fl250 came with an aftermarket exhaust. I have no clue what it is, but it looks cool.  It does have a spark arrestor, but is also pretty loud.  Oh well.

5. Not sure what the carb jetting is, but I was given a small baggy of carb parts.  I hate Keihin carbs in the JetSki world but I am familiar with them.  I like Mikunis better for performance, but Keihins are usually reliable enough.

6. The tires still have nobs on them but they are quite dry-rotted.  My actual concern here are the rims which have been painted over rusted.

7. The cart drives straight but it did hit something hard front right.  The tie-rod snapped but was welded/repaired.  It looks like the front right tire may be 1/2" pushed back behind the front left.  The pivotal/boss for the front swingarm (whatever you call) the swingarm was replaced but the main 2" slide on the frame side is slightly bent.  The front brush guard is bent.  Should I erally care if it still goes?

Thanks everyone!

Pics to come

ZeroClient

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Re: New Owner: ~1980 FL250!
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2014, 05:30:39 AM »
Pics!

odypilots

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Re: New Owner: ~1980 FL250!
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2014, 12:45:03 PM »
Howdy! Congratulations on your trade.

Mikuni makes a fuel pump that works well, and should be just what you need.

20:1 isn't needed. Most use 32:1, but 40:1 should be fine.

Regarding the compression, did you hold the throttle wide open while checking? I always mention this because I didn't know it, and thought my compression was low.

If the wheels don't leak, as opposed to the tires leaking, you should be fine.

The pivot point can be straightened with heat and some long pipe slid over it to pry, but if it drives ok and doesn't bug you...

Have fun!
The usual 'my two cents' disclaimer applies. :)

flynryan87

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Re: New Owner: ~1980 FL250!
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2014, 04:49:50 PM »
good find there a lot of fun. I got a 1983 odyssey that has sat for ten years finally got it running last week and is way fun to drive. I spent a lot of money on it but I did all my own work.

ZeroClient

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Re: New Owner: ~1980 FL250!
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2014, 05:00:55 AM »
Thanks for the advice.

I found a pump and carb rebuild kit on EBay for $25 shipped so I'm going to start there. Seeing as the engine won't idle right I'm hoping a carb rebuild kit will help.  I'll also perform an engine pressure test next time the carb is off - I'll take off the exhaust too (It leaks at the tail :-|).  I always like performing both a positive AND negative pressure test on 2-smokes.

I'll try to run ~32:1 for awhile while I work out any kinks.

On the compression test - no I tested with throttle closed.  I'll run the test again when I have the carb off for rebuild, and I'll use a zip-tied throttle in the future.



I noticed on the last ride that there is a ton of gear/chain noise.  From the looks of it I don't think the drain plug has probably ever been removed from the reduction assm.  I'm going to check it out - hope it's not damaged or worn too badly.

Also it kinda seems like the gocart tops out extremely quickly.  Its kinda fast, but I wonder if the belt is too loose/long?  The kart gets to full speed/throttle rev limit very quickly but to me it just seems like it should be geared and going faster?  it also takes a lot of throttle to get going - again like the belt or variator isn't allowing engagement soon enough, and not stretching out for long/fast runs.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 05:06:59 AM by ZeroClient »

ZeroClient

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Re: New Owner: ~1980 FL250!
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2014, 08:29:47 PM »
Pressure test found massive leak on stator side. The engine wouldn't hold pressure at all and in fact blew air right into my hand from the pull start cover.  I pulled the motor and looked up the exhaust port. Found piston had taken a chunk and the top ring gone. Piston wash shows very lean. Tear down doesn't look too bad. I'll need to get the head dome resurfaced and the head milled. The crank survived.  Likely the cyl needs to be bored about 1mm too. Full gasket kit required.  I can't believe it had 115 compression and ran like this.

The good part is I know the machine shop owner well from jetskiing and can likely get a bore/hone and head redone for $50. Now I do have to find a prox kit with full gasket set.

I also found a missing intake runner to engine gasket.

Should I take apart the final drive asm to see how damaged this project really is?

odypilots

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Re: New Owner: ~1980 FL250!
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2014, 12:36:32 PM »
You can use a magic marker on the faces of the clutches to check to see if they're opening and closing all the way.
The usual 'my two cents' disclaimer applies. :)

ZeroClient

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Re: New Owner: ~1980 FL250!
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2014, 06:29:50 AM »
I just ordered a bunch of things to help get this kart going.  About $250 worth of engine rebuild parts from a decent head, .25mm o/b piston kit, gasket kits, crank seals, and drive clutch puller.  I also took apart and cleaned out the transmission; ordered a complete seal kit for that too.  Carb and pump rebuild parts also.  I think I may need to replace the crank bearings as it seems one of them might be spinning inside the case which is not supposed to happen - but I'll be sure once I get the drive clutch off and the cases split.  I'm going to replace the pullstart rope while it's out too.   Some of the wiring throughout also needs some clean-up reliability.

In this case -plus the new tire purchase- soon I'll have put in about $600 and ~20 hours to get this kart into running shape again hopefully with a solid motor and good tires in about 1~2 weeks.  I really didn't expect this but then again I only got the whole kart for $150 - so $750 aint bad if it will hold itself together.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 06:31:40 AM by ZeroClient »

flynryan87

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Re: New Owner: ~1980 FL250!
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2014, 09:10:03 PM »
 I bought mine for 400 now im into it 1500 lol. just bought a parts odyssey for 200 now I have two of everything

ZeroClient

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Re: New Owner: ~1980 FL250!
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2014, 09:35:38 AM »
HA!  I have about 20 things coming in this week from all over eBay.  It'll come together soon!

I also bought a fair condition ~1986 FL350 just this past Saturday.  The engine runs somewhat well but it is also going to take a bit to get together as well.  At leat the engine and tranny in this one is good.  It has good tires, but still going to cost about ~$200 to get well running again.  It's engine starts in 1~2 pulls and idles pretty good.  Electric starter rebuild kit is on the way also.  Like anything else I own it needs some personal fix-ups.  The big ticket on it is the brake master cyl is shot and the rebuild kit is $60, and I'm not totally confident it's gonna work right after. Just WOW.

It's all coming together though. I just cant believe I own two Honda Odyssey karts and have yet to ride one for more than 30 seconds.  Total Odyssey investment at this point is $2000 for both the FL250 ($350) and FL350 ($1600).

ZeroClient

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Re: New Owner: ~1980 FL250!
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2014, 10:16:46 AM »
Getting back to this kart.  I also have an FL350.  Both the FL250 and FL350 are coming together this weekend.

The reason why this one is taking so long is having to order and then re-order more and more parts.  The first round of crank seals one had a leak so I had to re-order.  Then the re-order got lost.  I finally got the final replacement crank seal yesterday, which means I can get to building this motor out this weekend.  Everything else (happy path) is already put together on the kart which now has new brakes, tires, carb rebuild kit, and its looking pretty good.  The FL250 is a lot simpler than an FL350 so this should be pretty smooth from now on.

ZeroClient

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Re: New Owner: ~1980 FL250!
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2014, 04:24:23 AM »
She's alive!!  This kart must be ~1978 or so because its got a point system.

When I put it all back together I had the 'roller' upside down so it was firing at bottom dead center instead of tdc.  It made a nice backfire but I don't think it harmed anything.  I flipped the roller around and it started up perfect first pull.  Fiddled with the carb a bit and she's a good runner.  I thought the motor mounts were shot but it wasn't obvious until the engine was running so I ordered new ones from oddatv.

I let the engine run for about 10 minutes; mostly idle as this is the first time start after FULL engine rebuild.  The engine never got over 230 degrees.  I did take it for a 100 foot drive just to test out if she'll go; and she'll go for certain!  Rear brake re-adjusted and now the axle can LOCK.  From here-on out this cart is ready for an easy break-in and trail runs.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2014, 04:36:51 AM by ZeroClient »

flynryan87

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Re: New Owner: ~1980 FL250!
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2014, 03:24:22 PM »
awesome good job

ZeroClient

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Re: New Owner: ~1980 FL250!
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2014, 08:44:58 PM »
I actually figured out this cart is a 1980 because of the points system, no cage, and the headlight is at the top of the frame support.  I believe 1981 went to CDI, and 1979 had the headlight elsewhere.  Regardless, this FL250 is honestly the oldest motorized thing I've personally ever owned which I think is cool.

The engine started perfect first pull today after 24 hours cold.  I let it run again for about 10 minutes idle to low-rev.  It sounds great even with an exhaust leak (Parts ordered again!)  This time I adjusted the idle speed and air screw - and now it idles beautiful.  I ordered motor mounts yesterday.

flynryan87

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Re: New Owner: ~1980 FL250!
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2014, 08:56:35 PM »
I need to adjust my idle its too low when hot. they are a blast to drive but they beat the livin shit out of ya. still worth it I think