Author Topic: New to me Odyssey and some questions. (help)  (Read 9556 times)

Max78

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New to me Odyssey and some questions. (help)
« on: December 15, 2010, 07:53:09 AM »
Hi guys,

 I?m new here and looking to get some help.

Just a short story.
 My friend purchased an FL350 that sat outside for a good price. It had a busted axle so we couldn?t drive it. It seemed to idle and rev just fine. At the time it was setup for gravity feed.

When we got it to my house we began to work. He immediately ordered a rear axle and when it arrived we installed it. At the time I had no idea about pretty much anything on this thing. We continued to run the gravity feed system and took it for a quick ride. We only ran it for a short amount of time (15 mins tops) and it ran great. He took it to his house and went to take it for a ride but fluid has gotten into the starter and it no longer worked. I cleaned out the starter and got it working again. Then he went to go for a short ride and as he was leaving his driveway started to act funny so he stopped and put it in neutral. I started to walk over and it starts screaming at high RPM so I run over and pull the spark plug. It?s still screaming so I unscrew the filter and smother the intake. It freaked him out so I talked him into taking everything apart and checking everything and repainting the frame. He agreed and we tore it down. I rebuilt the master cylinder, carburetor, fuel pump, coated the Original gas tank.

Fast forward to now, we have everything back together and working great aside from a few things.

When I coated the gas tank I let it dry in the wrong position and it plugged the Reserve. Is there any way I can dig that crap out aside from cutting the tank open?

I bled the front breaks and they work GREAT! I have bled the rears and they don?t lock up at all.

I When I rebuilt the carburetor I saw it has a #142 main and the needle is on the 3rd groove, as per service manual. It was also missing a spring on the air adjustment screw do how important is it? We are at 2389ft, and it never gets any colder than 50?. Mid day is around 70?.

 I have been trying to adjust the carb, but I can?t seem to get it to do what the Service manual wants it to do. I turn the air screw all the way in and then out 1.5 turns. I do not have a tach, so I pretty much guess where 1300 or whatever RPS is at. After letting it warm up for a minute I start to rotate the screw clockwise till the engine dies or so the manual says it will. It will not shut off. I can run the screw all the way in and it will never shut off. Does that mean we have a leak somewhere?

Also what kind of oil do we use in the balancer? 2 stroke oil or 4 stroke? I can seem to get a clear answer.

I will no doubt add to this later, but for now that?s all I can think of.

I would greatly appreciate any and all help!

Factory 45

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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2010, 03:13:51 PM »
The air screw should have some type of O-ring...some are flat and make external contact with the carb body. Some are internal and are at the bottom of the hole the air screw goes in. Either way it sounds like the spring you are missing may not be the only thing overlooked. Any air/fuel screw I have ever seen (two or four stroke) consists of the screw, the spring, a tiny flat washer (between the spring and o-ring) and a tiny o-ring. The engine will not act correctly without all the necessary parts...its almost like you dont have the air screw in at all as the o-ring being missing is allowing more air in than the pilot air-port circuit is designed to take. Hence your trouble with adjusting it. Be very careful running the engine until you get the necessary stuff...especially on decelaration the engine will be very lean. Did you find out why the engine screamed up to max rpms? Did you tear down and rebuild the engine? As for the balancer oil...not 100% sure on what viscosity but it is not 2 stroke oil that goes in there. 10W40 I think...but dont hold me to that.

Max78

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« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2010, 06:42:58 PM »
Thank for the response.
I took a few pictures so you can see what I'm talking about.

In the service manual it only calls for a screw (looks different) and a spring. No washer or O ring.

I have not taken the engine apart yet. I want to do a pressure test to see if t is holding pressure, but have not gotten around to it yet.

 It starts right up and idles great, but the Air Screw does not affect the Idle.






Factory 45

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« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2010, 08:33:58 PM »
Im not dogging the service manual...but they are not always to scale. The honda PN is 16016-GB4-003. Couldnt hurt to see if it is still avalable thru your local honda shop. Its probably not a huge money part.

hoodlum

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« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2010, 07:18:28 AM »
The engine running away at high rpm's and the idle screw not having an effect on the engine are sure signs of an air leak somewhere....Don't run it until you can find and fix the leak or you will be fixing a melted piston..This should fix both of your problems....
As for the gravity feed,you need a larger needle valve for the gravity feed to work correctly....They allow the fuel to enter the carb easier...The stock needle is under constant pressure from the pump,but with gravity feed,the lower the fuel level gets,the less pressure you have going to the carb,and will eventually starve it for fuel....You can also use the aluminum tank and still use the stock fuel pump...This will allow the fuel pressure to stay constant.....You would also have to fix a return to the tank similiar to the stock configuration with a relief valve if useing the pump to keep too much pressure from flooding the carb....
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Max78

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« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2010, 07:47:38 AM »
I replaced the gravity feed system with the stock tank and I rebuilt the fuel pump. The original owner tried using a gas tank from what looked like a generator. . .  It was a scary hack job.

I will do a leak down test to see if there is an air leak anywhere. Could you point me to an attachment I could use to help me with this?

Thank for the help!

hoodlum

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« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2010, 08:40:35 AM »
Quote from: "Max78"
I replaced the gravity feed system with the stock tank and I rebuilt the fuel pump. The original owner tried using a gas tank from what looked like a generator. . .  It was a scary hack job.

I will do a leak down test to see if there is an air leak anywhere. Could you point me to an attachment I could use to help me with this?

Thank for the help!


I use a pvc plumbing cap,think it's an 1 1/4" that fits into the intake boot...I also have a thick piece of rubber that I put behind the exhaust manifold and bolt it down to seal the exhaust...I then have a low pressure gauge fitted with a schrader valve and a hose bard with the correct size hose to attach where the fuel pump pulse line connects....Put in 6 pounds max.Mix a spray bottle with 50/50 dish washing detergent and water,and spray the engine while under pressure....Any leaks will bubble up....
Look especially behind the clutch,the base gasket,and the vent for the balancer area....There is a seal in there,and if it goes bad,the air will escape through the vent.......

Here is another set up...
http://www.p-o-ps.com/pops1/viewtopic.php?search_id=2076508869&t=2040


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Max78

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« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2010, 02:55:37 PM »
Ok guys. I did a pressure test and its leaking at the crank by the clutch. . .

 

  I'm going to rebuild the motor with all new seals, and wanted to know what tools I am going to need?

  Anything other than a clutch puller?

hoodlum

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« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2010, 03:03:10 PM »
Quote from: "Max78"
Ok guys. I did a pressure test and its leaking at the crank by the clutch. . .

 

  I'm going to rebuild the motor with all new seals, and wanted to know what tools I am going to need?

  Anything other than a clutch puller?


Are you replacing anything besides the seals? If you are doing bearings,you ill need a case splitter and a flywheel puller.....Just to do seals,clutch puller and flywheel puller to get to the seal behind the flywheel.....
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Max78

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« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2010, 06:34:31 PM »
There is no slop in the bearings so for now I'm just going to replace the seals. He is getting burned out on throwing money into this thing and still not being able to ride it.

Max78

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« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2010, 06:30:41 PM »
Ok guys I'm in need of a little help!

 Where can I get the crank case seals? I looked on Ebay and saw gasket sets but they never responded to my email as to whether or not they have the crank case seals.

I looked on odyssey salvage and saw 4 on there site and was not sure what I needed to get.

 If you can help me out and point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated!

hoodlum

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« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2010, 08:31:33 PM »
Quote from: "Max78"
Ok guys I'm in need of a little help!

 Where can I get the crank case seals? I looked on Ebay and saw gasket sets but they never responded to my email as to whether or not they have the crank case seals.

I looked on odyssey salvage and saw 4 on there site and was not sure what I needed to get.

 If you can help me out and point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated!


You will need all 4 of these to do the entire engine....


 
  R CRANK SEAL  (Honda)   flywheel side $10.00ea
  L CRANK SEAL  (Honda)   clutch side $12.00ea
  L OUTSIDE COVER SEAL  (Honda)    $ 10.00ea
  O-Ring Seal (Honda)     next to L Crank seal on spacer $2.50ea

Max78

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« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2011, 12:02:23 PM »
Well I have been busy and never got around to working on that odyssey motor. My friend decided to take it to an ATV performance shop that just opened up and asked them to rebuild it.

They have had the motor for almost a month and just got around to splitting the case. From the sound of it they have never done one of these motors as they charged him for the case splitter (facepalm). Well from what I hear (second hand info) the head was badly pitted, and the case is cracked. . . So the people doing the work on the motor said they could have whatever part that was cracked custom built, I asked how much. My friend didn?t ask but didn?t tell them to go ahead either so its just sitting there.

 I?m thinking of just telling him to take the motor back and part it out (the motor that is). Then either get a Rotax or something else we can swap in there. He wants to get a 4 stroke motor and put it in there so he can make is street legal. Then we would not have to trailer it to our trails. Maybe a nice 2000 or newer 450 out of a dirt bike or quad? They have around 40-50HP. The stock FL350 is around 25-30? It should be a nice bump in power, and tons of low end grunt.

 I have decent fabrication skills, so I don?t think it would be too much of a problem. I have access to a shop with plenty of tools. I also have my free time now that summer is here (field service ended).

I will continue to brows the forums for more information.

New Info: Looks like a Polaris 500 would be an excellent candidate.

  Thanks for all the help guys!

hoodlum

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« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2011, 01:41:17 PM »
I would go get that engine asap....Cracked cases can be welded and a pitted head is an easy fix for anyone knowing what they are doing....I would just about be willing to bet they cracked the case trying to split it.....
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LiveWire

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New to me Odyssey and some questions. (help)
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2011, 11:06:40 AM »
First off, the seals could have been replaced without splitting the cases. They can be pulled from the outside by threading screws into them and pulling with pliers. The new seals can then be pressed in from the outside.

My Motion Pro case splitter tool is generic, not specific to the FL350. It is a tool any shop that regularly works on ATV engines should have had already.

The O-ring is included in the gasket kit and the gaskets are needed anyway so that is how I would get that.

I have had cases welded for people. Instead of trying to weld the entire case all the way to the edge, they were only welded to within an 1/8". That prevents the crack from spreading. Locktite was used to seal the rest of the crack. Doing it this way prevents the need to machine the gasket surface of the case half which can in turn cause a leak there or alter the main bearing alignment.

I should have a good used head. I had quite a few at one point that came off engines with a water cooled heads put on.