Author Topic: poof kaboom  (Read 5017 times)

turbotexas

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poof kaboom
« on: July 02, 2006, 06:52:06 PM »
I read an earlier post by 79 odyssy and thought it was comical how he used the term POOF KABOOM. well in my afternoon trip around the neighborhood I wass easing alond  as Happy as you please. I  kinda chuckled out load  about the  POOF KABOOM thing and guess what I heard...
POOF KAAAAAAAABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM...
Dang my luck, shoulda waited for the Digitron. :mad:
I went back and read 79odyssey's  post and he was able to get a compression reading. I might not be so lucky.  After dragging it home with the tractor, I  tried  to pull the pull starter  cord and it's locked up tight. I then pulled the plug, and found it was not tight in the head, actually came out with a good hard twist of the hand??? This was the second time I noticed the plug loose. First time I caught it while I was warming up. I heard some backfireing then, but not today.
I have taken  some pictures  of the plug and it looks to me the grey in the first 3-4 threads might be from where the extra  air came from...
I have never rebuilt any engine, so this will be my first. Can any one tell me how much in parts I might have to spend/versus paying someone who knows what they are doing would charge so I can wiegh the benifets out. Who would be the best to send it to? I am sure the local Honda shop in town could do it, but they don't have the odyssey experience.
Next question, is what have I done if I can't even pull the cord to get it turned over???
Thanks
David

hoodlum

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Rebuild
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2006, 09:36:37 PM »
OH NO!!! That's not good buddy!!!!
I know that Randy Bridgewater at Odyssey salvage gets $250 and parts for a rebuild...Not sure about anyone else...Randy has my pilot engine as we speak...
Hoodlum

PilotSniper

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poof kaboom
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2006, 11:04:44 PM »
Been there, done that! :( It's not fun, but it'll get you to know your engine a whole lot better!!!

Good luck with the rebuild.
I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left!  :shock:

odypilots

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poof kaboom
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2006, 07:12:07 AM »
I'm sorry to hear it, I know you just got it. It sounds as though some of your piston has broken off and gotten jammed in the bottom end.
The usual 'my two cents' disclaimer applies. :)

turbotexas

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poof kaboom
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2006, 08:35:26 AM »
Quote from: "odypilots"
I'm sorry to hear it, I know you just got it. It sounds as though some of your piston has broken off and gotten jammed in the bottom end.


I was afraid something horrendous like that!! That's my luck, when I screw something up, I go all out!!! I can hope the the engine Gods will smile on me and make this an easy redo. I am going to pull today and send off and have someone who knows what they are doing fix it right. I have an old polaris 250 that I blew the engine on that I will use forr my Cherry rebuild...
To many Projects Not Enough Time...

turbotexas

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poof kaboom
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2006, 04:10:41 PM »
Well I didn't have to much trouble pulling the motor out. Was easier than I hoped!!! Before I boxed it up, I got real curious, and pulled the head off...
See pictures below. The plug hole is really stripped, might not be reusable. I was wanting the liquid cooled head anyway. I now have an excuse to get one.
Tried to pull the jug off but my tools seemed to not be made for getting those 4 buggers off... I could get the drive clutch to move a little, but there is really something in the bottom end that gets in the way. what if any specialty tool gets these nuts off of the cylinder? My wrench was hitting the edge of the fins, and I quit for fear I would strip the nuts...
I will box it up this evening, and ship out Wednesday before I go back out to California. i was so looking forwaard to the trip with the buggy on my trailer. I guess this will give me time to get the radiator installed, and finish up all the other minor cleanups. I sure wish I would have changeedthe oil before I rode so hard...

ludedude

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poof kaboom
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2006, 04:12:35 PM »
Quote from: "turbotexas"
To many Projects Not Enough Time...


Hey! I resemble that remark!

nuke em

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poof kaboom
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2006, 08:24:05 PM »
Sorry to hear your bad news. I guess I should have warned you, babying along at 1/4 to 1/3 for long distances without burping the throttle will build alot of piston temps(enough to seize a piston). After you get an EGT you will see it on the guage. Hopefully it is just a stuck piston and nothing else. Top end rebuilds are normally $150-200, if done right. A rebuild shop will cost more, ofcourse.  Let me know if I can help or do something for you.

I doubt you shattered the piston skirt and wedged anything. Been there, done that and have pictures and the Tee shirt to prove it! LOL You should have CHUNKS of piston on top of the piston dome when you pulled the head off, if you did that.

Gary

turbotexas

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poof kaboom
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2006, 10:31:07 PM »
What do you mean by burping the throttle???
I really didn't have much load  on the machine. it's pretty flat around here.  I wasn't at full throttle maybe 60/70%
i believe it might be worse than I originally thought. after I pulled the motor I went to drain the engine balance oil as directed from the service manual, and I might have got 4-5 drops out of the thing... The previous owner used Honda gear lube which is red and thick. Every time I checked the Dipstick there was oil on  it. I  NEVER wiped it and redipped it... The gummy red stuff always appeeared fresh and i ASSUMED it was full...so I never wiped and rechecked the levels...
I was going to change the oils that evening, since it was raining.
I could press down on the piston it would go in to the cylinder about 1/4" and  SLOWLY raise back to the  top. I could get the drive shaft  to move about 1/3 rotation, so maybe I'll get luckyand have not lost the crankshaft or rod.
I  still havn't got the 4 bolts loose to pull the jug. I won't  bee  able to see for  myself  how bad I screwed it up...
Live and Learn

nuke em

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poof kaboom
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2006, 06:54:22 AM »
Live and learn, great way to look at it. I like the attitude.

 OK, "burping" is simply cracking the throttle 1/2 or more open and immediatly releasing it, usually several times. This action dumps a cool fresh charge of fuel and air, cooling the piston. I am a burping machine when I ride! LOL Depending on your jetting, most 350 pistons get the hottest on a long 1/3 steady ride or long wide open run then just completely letting off the throttle(all the heat built by the run has nowhere to go). Thats where a liq cooling system helps and a few burps cool the piston immediatly. When ever you get the EGT you will see exactly what I am talking about. You can watch it happen.

Next, When ever I have a failure for an unknown reason, I like to do a leakdown test. That way I know its not a bad main seal so it will not happen again right after a rebuild. It took me several new top end rebuilds in a row for that one to sink in! LOL Guess I have to learn the hard way.

When I do a top end pull, I pull the drive clutch, seat, air dams, exhaust and carb/filter first. It just makes getting at the 4 nuts much easier(less cuts on the ol knuckles too).  You should not have any trouble with the e 2 exhaust side nuts like this. The other 2 you will need either a stubby box end 14MM or a crows foot 14MM. the crows foot is the best to break the torque with because it uses a ratchet and extension, IMHO.

 The jug should slide straight up and off the piston and rod, depending on how siezed it is. I have never had any real problems. You may want to pack some shop towels under it to help catch any "shavings/crunks" from falling into the bottom end before seperation. Hopefully the bore is fine and you can get away with a hone on the cylinder and a new piston.

This is a perfect time to do a rod and crank brearing check for play. I said fore-play, LOL.  :wink: You may want to to pull the engine for a complete inspection and it will help you learn more too. Pull the belt shields and starter wires, recoil handle and probably something else that I am forgetting too. I would rinse the bottom end with mixed gas and dump it on a light colored towel to see if anything is coming out. spin the crank to check/feel for anything in the bearings too. Flush it several times until clean.

Take lots of damage pictures for us if you go this route. This is what I do but by no means, don't feel like you have to take my advise. I am just trying to save you some money that the rebuilder will charge you to do. Hell, you might learn something and enjoy working on it too! :P

Gary

nuke em

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poof kaboom
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2006, 06:58:04 AM »
Sorry so long winded on the previous post. Anyway, the balancer oil has probably migrated to your starter and recoil area. We can tell you how to do a mod to fix that when you are ready with the engine on the bench. If you pull the starter and engine, let me know.
Gary

hoodlum

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Balancer oil
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2006, 07:09:29 AM »
Does anyone by chance have any pics of the vaccum hose connection from the starter to the balancer case?
After reading about this several times in the past, I decided to check out my new to me 350...The vent line from the starter is not connected to the case...It just hangs down beside the case...I can't even find the hole where it is supposed to connect...Might not be good, but maybe this is why my original starter is still working...The manual doesn't give any pics either......
Hoodlum

turbotexas

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poof kaboom
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2006, 09:32:24 AM »
Doh I am sooo  blonde...I didn't use the box end side of my wrench because it fit into my cheater pipe easier...LOL

turbotexas

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Re: Balancer oil
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2006, 11:58:48 AM »
Quote from: "Hoodlum"
Does anyone by chance have any pics of the vaccum hose connection from the starter to the balancer case?
After reading about this several times in the past, I decided to check out my new to me 350...The vent line from the starter is not connected to the case...It just hangs down beside the case...I can't even find the hole where it is supposed to connect...Might not be good, but maybe this is why my original starter is still working...The manual doesn't give any pics either......
Hoodlum


Mine was hanging off the side also

turbotexas

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poof kaboom
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2006, 12:53:00 PM »
OK I got the jug off and boy what a mess...  shavings everywhere. chunks in the crankcase, wire??? and lordie knows what else...
I  don't have a clutch puller so I could not get into the crankcase...
here are some pictures.