Author Topic: FL350 Stock Drive Clutch Removal  (Read 10540 times)

Shurakair

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
FL350 Stock Drive Clutch Removal
« on: May 08, 2006, 09:39:09 PM »
I'm really sorry if this has been asked before.  I did do a search and couldn't find anything that covered this topic specifically (my search skills prolly just suck).  Anyways, I was curious how does everyone remove their stock drive clutch?

The repair manual shows some kind of a forked tool (they call it a "salsbury holder") that inserts into some holes in the salsbury clutch.

I have tried the impact wrench approach and it hasn't made any progress.  I was thinking about having one of the machinists at my company build me a holder and take a crack at it that way.

I don't care about the clutch itself, its pretty shot and I have a new 94C replacement waiting.  However, I am concerned about the engine output shaft.  I don't want to damage that in any way.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Shur

nuke em

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 369
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
FL350 Stock Drive Clutch Removal
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2006, 10:58:41 PM »
No problem(searching), if you have a question, just ask. Most 350 driven clutches are siezed/rusted on after all these years if they have never been off before.

 Alot of people have had luck with just super penetrants like Liq Wrench, PB Blaster, Kroil(my favorite by far).  Spray it in both ends of the shaft and let it soak in at least 24hrs before attempting removal.

Heating it with a hand torch also helps. Air hammers, hand hammers and other physical banging is not good on the tranny case, shaft or bearings, in my opinion(IMO). So avoid these.

I have seen people chip,chunck and saw them to pieces getting them off, but save that as a very last resort.

This is the method I use and it has worked every time I have tried it(several). Pre-soak the shaft on both ends with Kroil. There are three small smooth holes in the hub of the driven, I drill and tap these holes to fit a heli-coil. Be sure not to go all the way thru the clutch face. There is a small open pocket about 3/8 of an inch in, you will see it. Stop drilling there. Tap the holes to fit what ever helicoil you are using and insert helicoil. Do not try a tiny heli coil, not enough bite in aluminium. Next, attach a three legged puller(steering wheel/harmonic balancer puller) and start turning. Be sure all screws are level before applying torque. Its always worked for me.

When its off, be sure to polish up the shaft with some emmory cloth and apply some kind of anti seize before adding the new clutch. I have some pictures of this procedure, but I will have to find them.

Good luck, and post back!

Shurakair

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
FL350 Stock Drive Clutch Removal
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2006, 08:29:35 AM »
Nukem, Thanks for the response.  Your tips will be useful when I get to the driven clutch.  However I must have explained my situation poorly.  Perhaps I have my terminology screwed up.

I'm trying to remove the other clutch.  The one that is attached to the engine.  I have some penetrant called "Deep Creep".  I'm not sure if that's on the same level as PB Blaster or Kroil, but I did spray that on (only one side however) and that didn't seem to help.

Also, I'm an idiot when it comes to pneumatics.  I have a 150psi air compressor with one of the "starter kit" setups from Home Depot or something.  (Got it for Christmas).  Its got one of those yellow coil hoses.  I'm sure the impact wrench isn't the most efficient either.  Should I change the hoses and fittings to a larger diameter?  Thanks again.

Shur

nuke em

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 369
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
FL350 Stock Drive Clutch Removal
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2006, 09:02:01 AM »
Ah, My bad. You did say engine and 94C. I was replying very late last night, and it just never clicked for me. Sorry.

  Anyway, the engine clutch is a much easier one to get off(normally). You need a clutch puller which is basically a longer version of your mounting bolt. The longer rod/bolt bottoms out in the crank shaft hole and then the threads pull the clutch off the shaft. Be sure to do the emory cloth polish and anti-sieze trick before installing the new one. I am assuming you are removing a stock salisbury, right?

If you don't want to buy a puller, you can always take it by a snowmobile dealer. Thier mechanics will probably pull it off for free.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress

Shurakair

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
FL350 Stock Drive Clutch Removal
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2006, 10:27:23 AM »
Yes, I am removing the stock clutch (which I believe has never been off this machine).  We bought this FL350 a month ago or so.  So my background knowledge of this machine is very minimal.

I bought the 94C from Livewire and I bought a stock clutch puller from him at the same time.  So I have the necessary tools.  The problem is I can't get the center bolt out to even get to the point to use the puller.

The snowmobile dealer sounds like a good idea though.  My wife is into snowmobiles and has some friends in the local snowmobile shops.  I'll have to put it all back together to get it on the trailer though.

Shur

nuke em

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 369
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
FL350 Stock Drive Clutch Removal
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2006, 11:21:15 AM »
Man I just flat missed the boat on your question, again sorry. So the bolt will not come out at all or is it coming out a short way then stopping? There is some kind of retaining/locking tabs on the stock set-up that have to be bent down. Does the impact driver have an adjustable impact setting? Maybe set too light. The bolt has normal threads, lefty-loosy, righty-tighty. Just ruling out the easy"aw shit" stuff. You can't go wrong with a sled guy doing it either.

Keep us posted.

Shurakair

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
FL350 Stock Drive Clutch Removal
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2006, 12:16:42 PM »
Nukem,
Thanks for confirming the thread direction for me.  That WAS a concern for me.  I couldn't find any documentation that specified it wasn't normal, but given the difficulty I'm having I had by doubts.

The impact wrench does have 3 adjustable settings in the forward direction.  However, it only has 1 setting in reverse.

The bolt will not budge at all.  I saw the locking tabs and at first I didn't bend them down at all.  As far as I could tell they didn't look like they were holding the bolt I was trying to remove.  There is a larger hex head nut between the mounting bolt and the clutch itself.  I don't know if this is normal or not.  I should just take a pic, it would be easier to have a discussion about it with a pic.

From the outside, working inwards I have:
Mounting Bolt - Won't move
Washer
Hex Nut (looks like a nut from what I can see of it) - Can't get a wrench on this
Locking tab thing
Clutch

I eventually bent the locking tabs back and tried the impact wrench again with no luck.

I also tried a hokey type of strap wrench (kind of like the universal oil filter wrenches) in an effort to stop the rotation of the clutch/motor but after applying a little force I didn't like the way the motor shaft was taking it so I abandoned that pretty quick.

Shur

Shurakair

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
FL350 Stock Drive Clutch Removal
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2006, 08:20:58 PM »
This is the bolt that just won't come out.  :)

nuke em

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 369
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
FL350 Stock Drive Clutch Removal
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2006, 04:44:53 AM »
Ya, that is a stock set-up. The big hex hex nut under the bolt and washer is actually a hollow bolt, if I remember right. I do not remember if its threaded into the clutch or just sets in there. I'll check when I get home.

LiveWire

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1024
  • Karma: 20
    • View Profile
    • 85 Honda Odyssey FL350 Parts
stock shaft
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2006, 05:18:50 AM »
The hollow bolt needs to be removed after the main bolt. It threads out and the puller threads into the same threads.

Nothing else holds the main bolt in other than torque. One time I had a bolt that was not coming out with the impact wrench. I bought a higher torque impact and it came out.

Gary, on the driven, I would agree hitting it with a hammer would hurt the bearings. I use an air hammer at a low setting. With the clutch pulled outward, all the side play in the bearings is taken up in that direction. The air vibrating the shaft the other direction. I feel the movement of the shaft is taken up in the side play of the bearing.

nuke em

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 369
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
FL350 Stock Drive Clutch Removal
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2006, 08:13:02 AM »
I was not trying to offend you by knocking your technique for removal Steve. This guy needed help and has never removed one. I just didn't want him to get too rough with it. Trannys and parts are very expensive. Your way sounds like a good way to get it off, but it does work if they are froze/rusted good and solid? I was just passing along info the best I know how. I have drilled and tapped 4-5 drivens and everytime it worked fine. It just takes a little time to do the work. Again, sorry if I offended you Steve. Moskito is the only guy I try to offend, and thats pretty tough. LOL :wink:

Shurakair

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Almost there!
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2006, 07:44:51 PM »
Well, I finally managed to get that #@$%# bolt out.  I just wailed on it with the impact wrench for a long long time.  Little by little the WHOLE thing started to come out (hollow bolt AND mounting bolt at the same time).

Eventually the hollow bolt backed out enough that I could get a 32mm box end wrench onto it.  After that it was no problem getting them off.  (I did have to do some shade-tree machining to a cheapo box end in order to make it thin enough to fit between the clutch and the washer)  But it all worked out.  Now I'm going to let it sit and soak in penetrating fluid for awhile before I really try to get it off.

The stock clutch puller that Livewire made for me has a beveled end on it.  Am I supposed to put that end in the clutch first?  If I do that, could it screw up the threads in the engine output shaft?  It seems to be a fairly steep bevel, but I'm just not sure.  Thanks

Shur

nuke em

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 369
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Almost there!
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2006, 09:24:31 PM »
Quote
The stock clutch puller that Livewire made for me has a beveled end on it.  Am I supposed to put that end in the clutch first?  If I do that, could it screw up the threads in the engine output shaft?  It seems to be a fairly steep bevel, but I'm just not sure.  Thanks

Shur


Great work my friend! Smart thinking on the letting it soak tonight too. The beveled end should go in first, then the threaded puller part will have something to push against. The beveled rod should not hit the threads inside the shaft. I would look at the threads to be sure they are clean before starting the puller. If there is some dirt or grit, an old tooth brush does a fine job of knocking it out. I would put some WD or the like on the threads before starting it too. Good luck and keep posting updates!

Shurakair

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Finally
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2006, 11:19:16 AM »
I got the clutch off this morning.  Before I put the new clutch on, I have some questions.

1.  Should I do anything to clean up the engine out put shaft?  Emery cloth?  (if so, what grit?)  Wire brush?

2.  I've read where people put "anti-seize" on their driven clutch shaft, should I put the same thing on the engine output shaft?  If so, what exactly is "anti-seize"?  Whats a name brand?  Where is a common place to get it?  Thanks

Shur

I'm also curious how badly this clutch is worn?  This is the first one I've ever replaced and the shape of the inside faces just seems like its worn pretty good.  How long would it typically take to wear a clutch like this?

nuke em

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 369
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
FL350 Stock Drive Clutch Removal
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2006, 12:04:59 PM »
Congrats!  The Emory cloth is a very, very fine sand paper. It more for polishing than removing material. Your output shaft appears to be in very good shape. Does not look rusted. The  shaft is supposed to be tapered like that, its not worn down. Its a 1:10 taper, 30 MM.

I have some stuff now that is an anti sieze compound. I have used grease, threadlock(locktite), WD, and a few other things that I can't think of right now. You just want something that will keep out moisture and keep the surfaces from rusting together. Thats my take on anti seize anyway. I pull my clutches evry season to inspect things and to lube them with Comet Clutch spray lube(highly recommended too).

Your factory clutch does look somewhat worn on the drive faces, especially down along the bottom 1/3. That tells me that it did alot of lower speed use OR the cams and rollers inside were sticking, not allowing it to fully open. I would save it as an emergency back up clutch incase the 94C breaks(not very likely). If you are just going to pitch it in the trash, I want it for spare parts for my stock clutches.