Author Topic: pilot rear suspension - increasing stock travel  (Read 2947 times)

ludedude

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1478
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
pilot rear suspension - increasing stock travel
« on: August 16, 2005, 07:40:05 PM »
Hey Buck! Got that axle and tried it out..problem is the ball joint in the upper arm, it binds limiting the motion of the suspension, before maxing out the CV's. Wonder if a heim can be fitted into the bearing carrier arm instead of the ball joint, and use a bolt through the upper arm, through the heim in the carrier. The prototype CV's will allow all the travel you can get with the stock arm configuration. If we can get something that will give the needed movement in that joint you'd need an 11" stroke shock  :shock: Measuring from the LONG axle bolt to the upper shock mount in compression min was 17.5" max was 28.5".

I'll try and get some more measurements and pictures.

ludedude

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1478
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
pilot rear suspension - increasing stock travel
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2005, 06:27:21 AM »
So anyone have any ideas on what can be used to replace item #11 to allow more angular deflection than the OEM ball joint?

I also have to replace one on another Pilot....how the heck do you get those out? (after removing the cir-clip of course) Can they be removed and re-used?

pilotdude

  • Guest
pilot rear suspension - increasing stock travel
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2005, 10:02:14 PM »
After you remove the circlip you can press it out. I used a multipurpose puller I had laying around my garage to get it out. Dont know if there reusable sense I replaced mine.  Why not build a new uper arm with heim joints? You can easlily make lower arms with heim, or buy them from atv.

ludedude

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1478
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
pilot rear suspension - increasing stock travel
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2005, 04:02:15 AM »
Yeah I may put a hiem in the upper arm instead of the mounting flange for the ball joint. that should give that joint more angular movement before binding. The prototype axle wil not work as is though. :( There's too much plunge of the axle in the suspension setup. They will have to make a slip joint in the mid section of the axle. I guess the Drakarts are setup like this???

Modify your upper arm with a hiem joint, install new axles ~$350USD ea, and new shocks capable of allowing the increased travel ($$?? - possible with mounts as is?) and you can gain ~2-3" rear travel.

Interest seems non-exsistent in this so I haven't put much focus on it. I may pursue it this fall/winter. Be nice to increase the rear travel to closer match the +2 setup up front, and not go wider...that's key for me...no wider, the ATV trails here are tight as is now  :shock:

pilotdude

  • Guest
pilot rear suspension - increasing stock travel
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2005, 08:47:29 PM »
It does seem like a lot of money. Modifing your shock mounts with new hoops like skeeter did on the frankenskeeter would most likely be a must. With that set up you get roughly 8.5" of travel, so with your modified axeles and heim joints your talking 10-11" of travel with stock width. Sounds pretty good. How much are you getting out front with the +2's?

ludedude

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1478
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
pilot rear suspension - increasing stock travel
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2005, 06:44:08 PM »
Well, I got a spare upper arm modified, and had the prototype axle in to try and cycle the suspension through its new range.

Looks like the 11" is possible, the axle plunges 1-1/2" through this range, not sure if the CV can take all this or not, a slip joint may be needed. I'm wondering if a C-clip can be installed on both CV ends, but not inserted into grooves, just as a lock to keep them from coming out, but allow them to slide inward, on both, that should give ~3" of total plunge.

This shold work out to:
$700 for axles
$600 ?? dunno, maybe less??  fox shox (11" stroke)
$600 ?? shock mounting hoops, parts for modified upper arms, harware _____
$1900  

Worth it? 4" more travel, and maintain stock width.....don't know if I'll get a prototype one done up or not :?

ludedude

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1478
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
pilot rear suspension - increasing stock travel
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2005, 06:31:23 PM »
Photos of the modified rear suspension

http://p-o-ps.com/forum/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=55

PilotHawK

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
pilot rear suspension - increasing stock travel
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2005, 05:13:03 PM »
Looks good. keep us updated.

Moskito

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 396
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.yellowdogracing.com
pilot rear suspension - increasing stock travel
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2005, 09:15:01 AM »
Quote from: "ludedude"
This is a shot of the stock suspension travel without shocks or axles.

Lower limit is 16-5/8" - upper is 6-9/16" = 10-1/16" total possible travel, but the stock axles will not allow the deflection needed without binding on the inner cup.


What's binding on the shock?  Shock's hitting the CV cup? - not sure I understand.

Would offsetting the shock's mounting point make any difference?  I can send you a set of spacers that would offset the shock in the mounts.
Moskito - Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming \'WOW-What a Ride!\'

ludedude

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1478
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
pilot rear suspension - increasing stock travel
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2005, 09:23:15 PM »
If you remove the axles and shocks the suspension will give you 10-1/16" travel. But the stock axles will not allow the that amount of travel, the inner CV comes into bind way before that. I guess that's why they have the ball joint in the upper arm as such, it limits the stock geometry to within the limits of the inner CV.

Get rid of the ball joint, you get more travel...but then need to contend with the CV binding.

The shock's not binding with anything.... :?  :P

Moskito

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 396
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.yellowdogracing.com
pilot rear suspension - increasing stock travel
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2005, 09:44:38 AM »
Quote from: "ludedude"
If you remove the axles and shocks the suspension will give you 10-1/16" travel. But the stock axles will not allow the that amount of travel, the inner CV comes into bind way before that. I guess that's why they have the ball joint in the upper arm as such, it limits the stock geometry to within the limits of the inner CV.

Get rid of the ball joint, you get more travel...but then need to contend with the CV binding.

The shock's not binding with anything.... :?  :P
I have no idea why I read "shocks binding"...  Duh.  Now that I re-read for the fifth time, I see that you never even mention the shocks...

Must been hit in the head earlier in the day and not realized it...  :?
Moskito - Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming \'WOW-What a Ride!\'

ludedude

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1478
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
pilot rear suspension - increasing stock travel
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2005, 02:43:48 PM »
:P

throttle

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 26
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
High Angle CV joints
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2005, 08:16:17 PM »
Hey Ludedude!  Long time since we chatted..............hope you are well!!!!

I like what you are doing with the stock travel and the heim joint. How's it working out?  Will the high angle CV joints that you talked about this summer help this that?  Aren't they 90 degrees or something?

ludedude

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1478
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
pilot rear suspension - increasing stock travel
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2005, 11:03:49 PM »
Yo! Luke  :lol:

The axles are turning out to be more expensive than planned  :cry:  They need tohave a slip joint built in, there's too much plunge for the CV to take up.

They should be done and ready soon.

I have a pair of 5/8" hiems...I just need to get a few pieces machined up and replace the ball joint tab on the upper arms with a threaded piece of round stock to accept the hiem.

Oh yeah  :oops:  and a pair of Fox shox  :D  and mounting hoops

throttle

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 26
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
CV Joints
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2005, 05:11:59 PM »
Do you still have access to the stock replacements for the inner CV joint?  I need a new one for one of my machines.  I just need the "guts" - aren't they about $90?  I don't need the high angle, just the regular replacement ones.  Thanks!