Author Topic: modified front suspension.  (Read 13234 times)

mobbinfl350

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modified front suspension.
« on: August 10, 2010, 10:46:26 AM »
whats up, idk if im supposed to make an intro so im just gunna do it here. y name is nick and ive got a fl350 oddy it has a water cooled head and radiator, converted to foot throttle, hand restraints, commet clutch, i think a melvin silencer and expansion chamber maybe? and works dual rate rear shocks. ive already launched it 24 ft and drive the hell outa the thing and brok the studs on the rear wheel off. so im definitly lookin for some new front suspension to help with the harsh landings. i noticed all the kits made for it still fun ball joint type bushings for the spindles and arms and bushings, which wear out and have deflection issues. how come oone has used heims and uni balls like an off road truck? thats what ive got on my truck. and uniballs would make getting more travel a lot easier too.

LiveWire

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Re: modified front suspension.
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2010, 12:05:58 PM »
Welcome to the site.

I designed the Aftershock Motorsports Long Travel A-arm kit for the FL350. Most people who question design decisions usually ask something like why I did not use quad A-arms. Some people want to buy just the sub-frame and used quad arms in order to save money.

I would say that the stress on the knuckle is reduced quite a bit due to the suspension absorbing the shock loads. The ball joints used have a 16mm shank and a tapered stud with 12mm threads. It would be similar to using a 5/8 heim with high mis-alignment spacers that would take a 1/2" mounting bolt. The A-arms could be threaded for a 5/8" heim instead though if new knuckles were made with double shear mounting. Making knuckles that way is not something I plan to do since there is little demand, but is possible if someone wanted to take the kit even farther. The limiting factor on the suspension travel is not the ball joints. It is the shocks. If longer travel shocks were used, the suspension is capable of nearly 17" of travel, about 1" per 1" length of lower arm. The A-arms at that point would drop down at such an angle, it cause quite a bit of track width change among other negative characteristics. To get more quality travel, it needs even longer arms than the +4s. I would be willing to make someone a set of +8s if they desired. Shoving the lower shock mount out will also allow for a longer shock and the longer arms will also give a higher lever ratio. Could do about 20" wheel travel on an 8.5" travel triple rate shock and +8 arms.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 07:06:36 AM by LiveWire »

mobbinfl350

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Re: modified front suspension.
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2010, 01:32:16 PM »
with your kit how much clearance do you have at full compression? and has an yone thought of moddifying the front beam and doing a vw type beam conversion? there are so many long travel options out there for vws and it seems like it would work with little modification. you could just lengthen the beam on the odyssey or build new ones to fit the vw beams on there, new steering, and a shock hoop. these are just some things that have been running through my head lately

LiveWire

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Re: modified front suspension.
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2010, 02:32:46 PM »
It has about 1.5" of ground clearance at full bump with 21" tires. A key difference between our A-arms and other extended arms for the Pilot (our arms are based off the Pilot's) is that our ball joint shank angles are optimized for their length. If you take a Pilot arm and make it 4" longer with the same ball joint shank angle like others have done, full angle of the ball joints is reached after the frame has hit the ground. Also, one ball joint will bind quite a bit before the other. Our would bind at near the same angle just past when the shock would be bottomed out. That leaves maximum available angle for droop.

A VW beam is very heavy. To get long travel with trailing arms, you have to have long arms. That will shorten the wheel base. If you land nose down, the frame hits the ground before the tires. Trailing arms do not have a camber curve and corner poorly.

mobbinfl350

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Re: modified front suspension.
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2010, 02:45:43 PM »
dang, so that means with a bigger shock you could easily get more travel out that lt kit. the only theng would be it would almost be useless because the frame would hit before you even use the extra amount of travel. and i get what youre saying about the vw beam. im thinking about possibly trying to make my own long travel a-arm kit for my odyssey to practice for suspension work im doing to my truck. i figured it would be better to practice on the odyssey than my truck haha

LiveWire

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Re: modified front suspension.
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2010, 03:31:59 PM »
All the extra available travel on our kit is on the droop side, not bump. A shock wiith the same compressed length, but longer travel would add more droop. A shock that has a longer compressed length would require moving the shock mounts up. The clearance at full droop would still be set to the same amount.

mobbinfl350

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Re: modified front suspension.
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2010, 04:54:54 PM »
so rihgt now that kit has about 4-5" up tavel and 8-9" of droop travel? sounds like its set up well... wish i had the money to buy one, its all goin into my truck right now. but i might give building my own a shot

LiveWire

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Re: modified front suspension.
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2010, 07:03:04 PM »
It has about 8" of up travel and about 5" droop. Stock is 4" up travel only so it raises the nose about 4".

mobbinfl350

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Re: modified front suspension.
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2010, 07:18:07 PM »
damn, thats a good amount of travel for these little things! so, whats the cheapest and best way to get more throttle response and a little more bottom end out of these things?

mobbinfl350

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Re: modified front suspension.
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2010, 10:29:23 PM »
wow... this forum is dead huh?

LiveWire

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Re: modified front suspension.
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2010, 05:05:00 AM »
Drop the slow jet to a 45 and it will improve throttle response. That is the cheapest. If you want more, go to a 35 PWK carb, intake and V-Force 3 reeds.

I would not do anything that is typical of trying to improve bottom end. You need to clutch it so that the engine can rev up. Altering the power characteristics of the engine towards lower RPMs will only result in a net loss of power averaged across the entire RPM range. In other words you will lose more up top than you gain at the bottom.

mobbinfl350

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Re: modified front suspension.
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2010, 11:55:35 AM »
its got an intake. but i think it might have the clutch adjusted like you said, it revs up a lot before itl take off when starting from a dead stop. idk if they all do that or its just cus the clutch i have on it.

LiveWire

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Re: modified front suspension.
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2010, 02:27:42 PM »
Hhere is what one of the clutches look like:
350 Odyssey Comet 94C
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 07:07:37 AM by LiveWire »

mobbinfl350

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Re: modified front suspension.
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2010, 09:05:04 PM »
yeah i have that clutch on it. also do the wheel bearings go out on these often? where can i find parts like wheel bearings and u joints and ball joints at for these?

LiveWire

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Re: modified front suspension.
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2010, 07:55:01 AM »
I would not say they go out often, but on a 25 year old machine, this probably is not the first time they needed replacing.

Bearings and Seals for the 1985 Honda FL350R Odyssey

Honda does not sell the U-joints, only the complete axle. The Original U-joints have very thick inner race and very thin caps. Once there is play in the U-joint, the hardening of the cap is worn through and the caps will distort causing distortion to the yokes on the shaft. If replaced, the distorted yokes cause the U-joints to not last long. If your shafts are original, they are 25 years old. Replacing the entire shafts means going a very long time without problems form the U-joints.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 07:08:54 AM by LiveWire »