Author Topic: CRASH...boom smash...ouch! Pilot suspension woes  (Read 2634 times)

ludedude

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CRASH...boom smash...ouch! Pilot suspension woes
« on: April 17, 2004, 06:03:16 PM »
Had my Pilot out last Sunday...first chance to try the Works shocks. Well the ride didn't last long....The front handling was really impressive. THe combination of the +2 arms and the Works shocks up front worked really well. High speed through rough stuff was smooth and steering was predictable and precise.

Now the rear end was a different story. I need a lesson in what terminology is used to describe what in suspension. This is what I observed. The rear suspension seemed softer than stock when pushing down by hand on the rear bumper. But on jumps it would kick the rear end up. The shorter and steeper the ramp (the more compression the rear would experience) the more it would kick up once the rear left the jump. On long, gentle sloped ramps/jumps the front would still lnad first but it soaked it up SO nice compared to stock....(+2 arms and aftermarket shocks are a must have now in my books if you're going to do any jumping). But the shorter the jump the worse the  rear repsonded. I hit one short, steep jump...too fast  :shock:  I wnet up, and then changed directions, the nose went from pointing 45? up to straight down, and that's how I intially hit!  :x  One front wheel took all the impact of the Pilot's weight and momentum. The shock had no chance to ease the impact as I was pointed straight up and down (or very close to it, not enough to flip me over ass over tea kettle, thankfully).

So without any suspension help, theings went crack, smash...boom.

Bent the tie rod, snapped the tie rod end (broke the shoulder cup that houses the ball joint), snapped the lower ball joint, bent one heim joint, snapped the other on the lower A-arm, and snapped the lower mount off the shock rod....

The rears, needless to say, have gone back to get re-tuned, and one front one to get repaired...

I have sent some shocks to another shock manufacturer to get a set made from them to try out as well. These will be more exspensive, but will feature: triple or quadruple rate springs, high and low speed compression adjustability, rebound adjustability, 5/8" shaft, pre-load, and shim stack valving. Will see if it's worth the price as they claim. If so, my Works will be for sale  :wink:

atvnut

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CRASH...boom smash...ouch! Pilot suspension woes
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2004, 07:41:42 PM »
seems to me you needed more rebound dampening,  if your rear was kicking up offof jumps etc etc... To much rebound and you will get a feeling of not enough shock or bottoming as it never recovers or returns to extended length. sounds like the spring may have been right but the shock wasnt slowing down the action/reaction of the spring.
Thank you
"The Nut"

ludedude

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CRASH...boom smash...ouch! Pilot suspension woes
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2004, 07:44:50 PM »
So more rebound damping slows the extension of the shock? So I had too little? Cool, that's the lingo I need to learn, thanks

ludedude

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CRASH...boom smash...ouch! Pilot suspension woes
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2004, 04:58:50 PM »
Posted some pictures in the gallery of the damage :?

http://www.p-o-ps.com/coppermine_dir/index.php?cat=5


redrider

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and the arms themselves?
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2004, 08:12:16 PM »
From the looks of that damage the hit was tremendous!  How did the overall structure of the arms hold up?  I didn't see any bends or dents in the tubing.  The shock mounts looked like they held as well.  Any stress cracks in the welds?  Inquiring minds (and fabricator) wants to know  :)

ludedude

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CRASH...boom smash...ouch! Pilot suspension woes
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2004, 08:32:36 PM »
The arms look great Red  :wink:  Good job! I will remove the other side and lay it over top to compare...but I don't think it bent at all. Yeah, I'm a little surprised that the lower shock mounts didn't dend, i thought they looked a little light...but they seem fine.

I thought I had more photos taken...but that's all that downloaded from the camcorder....was sure i took one of the shock rod end that snapped....camcorder mustta been hungry  :roll:   :?:

It was quite a hit!  :lol:

johnhbd

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CRASH...boom smash...ouch! Pilot suspension woes
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2004, 08:43:56 PM »
I do not know if these shocks have compression and rebound adjustments.If the shocks feel soft when you push down you may also need more compression.This will limit the downward g-force in a jump.Be careful not to put to much rebound dampening,because in a series of whoops the shock will not return enough after each whoop.

redrider

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shocks packing up
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2004, 09:27:58 PM »
"Packing up" can occur in a shock when the rebound and compression are dampened too much for either to recover properly.  When the shock packs up it simply gets to a point where it no longer can overcome the forces in either direction and seems to freeze or move so slowly that you feel like you're riding on pieces of straight pipe.  This is not a comfortable ride as you will have nearly created a straight axle effect.  Bumpy as shit!

ludedude

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CRASH...boom smash...ouch! Pilot suspension woes
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2004, 01:30:14 PM »
Got the shocks back....they added rebound adjustment on the rear ones  8)  

But they forgot to rebuild the damaged front one with adjustable preload  :x  So now I have one front pre-load adjustable and one non! Well for this weekend anyhow until they get the threaded sleeve, nut and correct spacer rings to me  :roll:

Sarah (our youngest) and I both were diagonoised today with pneumonia so I probably won't get out this weekend anyhow  :cry:

ludedude

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CRASH...boom smash...ouch! Pilot suspension woes
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2004, 02:46:07 PM »
My brother helped out by installing the shocks last night...neato with the adjustable rebound...can't wait to try it out.

Can go from zero rebound...(they compress, but don't return) to rebound really fast. Hope that helps get rid of the donkey kick attitude they had!