Author Topic: pilot  (Read 2615 times)

twostrokes4ever

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pilot
« on: March 25, 2004, 06:08:40 PM »
i dont have a pilot...yet but i wanted to ask some of you that have theme , how do they ride in the rouph stuff, with the IRS suspenstion, do they ride smooth, stiff, things like that and are they good for jumping, :)  to me they seem pretty smooth and jump pretty good

pilotdude

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pilot
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2004, 06:48:54 PM »
The front is horrible, but several people are working on kits. Also the rear is bearable being re-built with new shock oil. They jump pretty good, I have stock suspension and Im taking around 20ft long table tops, and up 55ft long table tops just fine with out bottoming out, as long as I land perfect on the down side, If I over jump, or underjump it gets SCARY, I cam up short on a long double, front bottom out very quick, I thought it was going to endo but it didnt. If your going to being do like national level mx tracks invest in better suspension, other wise stock is pretty good

twostrokes4ever

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pilot
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2004, 10:06:02 PM »
WHAT...so your saying that it rides crapy over rouph terrain like not very smooth..hmmm i thote it wound ride really smooth. PLEASE MORE PEAPLE RESPOND TO THIS im concernd

ludedude

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pilot
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2004, 10:14:16 PM »
No..don't think he is saying that.

The front is the weak link in the pilot suspension, the area that can the easiest gains

The front shocks are not up to par with the rear. Replacing all 4 with Works...you will see more difference in the front than the rear.

They ride smooth over rough terrain. I can easily out run  quads in the rough stuff. They have to hold on...I'm strapped in! Point and shoot!

rocketman

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pilot
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2004, 08:06:28 AM »
I had an interesing experience along the line of this topic.  I have a Pilot that is mostly stock - suspension was totally stock.  I was able to purchase a set of older Fox coilover REAR shocks that ATVR used to sell -  direct bolt on.  I put these rears on this Pilot and left the front stock.  It made a tremendous overall difference in the handling of the car.  It was like it made the fronts twice as good as well.  Bad part is it was then ridden harder and was not long before both FRONT shocks were blown.

Moskito

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pilot
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2004, 08:31:10 AM »
The Pilot, in stock form, works very well.

You've just managed to stumble across a crew of people that is always looking to make it better.

The front shocks are the weak link on the Pilot in the suspension dept.  As has been said, Works shocks appear to be the general "bolt on" answer.  I have no experience with Works on anything other than my XR 50's, so I can't say yea or nay for the Pilot, but I've been quite satisifed with them on my 50s.

The rear end's fine for general stuff.  Many people have been messing with the oil in the shocks - change it out for some other weight - and then recharging the nitrogen in the shocks.  Odyknuck can give you a bit more info, as he just did it this week.

With some very minor mods (shocks, as mentioned above) the stock suspension can be made very supple and work quite well.

With some semi major mods, you can get both ends working exceptionally well.

Up front a change to +2"  a-arms (meaning the a-arms are 2" longer than stock) and aftermarket shocks is great.  I think it's probably one of the most common front end mods.

There are a few people/mfg's that are making extended a-arms, just ask if you need more info. - ask the board, that is.  I don't want to put one of my buddies on the spot saying "So and so's making arms" w/o him wanting to make more.

Some front end kits require the relocation of the upper shock mount. - it's an easy thing to do if you have any sort of fabrication skills.

On the rear end it's a bit different.  You can do just shocks, but you won't get much more travel, if any.  BUT the damping characteristics and spring rates on the shocks will more than make up the difference (this means it's a good thing)

If you rework the upper rear mounts  and switch to a shock that has 8.5" of shaft travel, you can increase the rear's travel and make it work very, very well.  This takes a bit more modification work, though.  There are as many different ways of redoing the rear shock mounts as there are people doing them, so no way is wrong or correct.   You just have to make sure that at full droop you have NO hint of bind in the inboard CVs or you'll break them right off the tranny very, very quickly.

I set mine - http://www.yellowdogracing.com/frankenskeeter.htm - up so that the CV's just barely started to bind then pulled the suspension up by .500" so there is no bind at all.  Install the new shocks on the lower mounts and they'll show you where the upper mounts need to be.

Then you can get crazy.  ATV Racing makes THE long travel kit.  It widens the rear end about 4" overall (I think it's 4") and the front is widened 9".  You get right at 10" of travel in the rear end and about 10-11 up front.  It's an expensive kit and requires a lot of modifications, welding and such. but if you're going to be running in the desert, on MX tracks, places where you run the thing near the top speed and such, it's the way to go.

Spring rates are very important too. You need to set them up for your weight, the type of riding you plan to do and such - this can get pretty deep, so I'm not gonna go into it too much now.  I don't know what rates are good for stock dimension suspensions, anyhow.

One last thought.  A well setup LT Pilot will pretty much walk away from most things (quads, mx bikes - depending on rider's ability and balls) in whoops.

There are single seat vehicles out there that will trounce a Pilot in certain conditions, but overall, a Pilot's got the range covered and does everything in a very friendly, user happy way.
Moskito - Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming \'WOW-What a Ride!\'

twostrokes4ever

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pilot
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2004, 11:48:02 AM »
man thanks for the info i have a 250r with works, but yea thanks for the info, so your the guy who built the frankenskeeter thats a sweet ride, so they do ride nice over the rouph stuff better then quads you say...because from what i thote you sit in a chair and have irs so it must be smooth as butter

Faux Pas

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pilot
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2004, 01:57:32 PM »
Hey you guys,
Where do you get the nitrogen?

redrider

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spring rates and such
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2004, 07:39:57 PM »
You've referred to "rough stuff" but that can be quite varied.  Do you mean deep holes, big bumps, desert type washes, whoops, washboard type road beds, etc.?  When we ride woodland trails we find just about everything from short and tall water bars for drainage to tree roots, large rocks and dried rutted hard pan.  (personally I don't think rocks are a Pilot's friend)
I have a modified front end with +2 a arms and aftermarket shocks with 6" of travel (10.25" travel at wheel),  and aftermarket shocks in the rear with 8" of shock travel.  The rears required no upper mount modification.
I'm running single 150 lb. springs in the front and a single 125 lb. spring in the rear.  I think the shock valving is pretty important to work in concert with the spring rates but I also think there is a happy medium in all of it.  It depends on how much time your willing to invest to work it out to suit your needs.  Shock valving and spring rate calculations are about 1/4 engineering, 1/4 personal taste or "feel" and about 1/2 voodoo, seriously.  Most every rider senses things differently and has personal driving/riding technics.  That's why there are so many different opinions as to how good certain aftermarket shocks and springs are or are not.  It is just such a subjective thing.
Adjustable shocks will allow you change the valving IF and I again say IF the adjustable clicks ACTUALLY make a difference that you can tell.  Determining what works may take a lot of testing in the EXACT same terrain.  Again, on the woodland trails we ride it is hard to find a setting that is sufficient for all situations.  The shocks I have aren't adjustable and I can't rebuild them myself but am lucky enough to have my supplier within 20 minutes of here and he'll re-valve as I require.  I'm pretty settled on what I have so far and it seems to have worked for a couple of others too.  
I am going to change to dual rate springs now that I've run the singles for some time.  The single rates have done well, Pilot handles the "rough" stuff fine and jumps level enough.  The dual rates will soften it for the constant chatter or small bumps, uneven dirt and small rocks.  That, hopefully, is the last development in my suspension.
I have made a few sets of +2 arms but the jury is still out as to how well they are liked.  Mine seem to do fine.  I am not ready to commit to "production" yet as the lack of proper equipment makes it hard for me to fabricate the small stuff efficiently.
All-in-all I think the Pilot is pretty smooth.  One thing you have to remember is even with the IRS, you are sitting strapped into a seat and you'll get quite a bit of feedback in your bum where as on a quad or bike you can absorb much if it in yours legs.

Moskito

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pilot
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2004, 07:46:38 PM »
Quote from: "Faux Pas"
Hey you guys,
Where do you get the nitrogen?


You can get a bottle of nitrogen from just about any welding shop.  You only need one of the small tanks.

The big thing with nitrogen is making sure you get the valve that will let you open the valve, charge the shock and shut the valve without taking the supply off.  Just hitting it with a regular air chuck won't get good results - you loose a lot of pressure with just a momentary "psst" of the valve.  (very little volume of Nitrogen's needed).

You can get the valve from Custom Axis.  Sorry I have no web info.  Give ATV Racing a call (623) 516-8640, ask for Neil and tell him you need to get one of 'Crashes' nitrogen valve setups.   Neil will understand.
Moskito - Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming \'WOW-What a Ride!\'